I have a 4 1/2 year old working line GSD, bought him when he was adult and had basic training already. He have a problem with outing when we play so I recently started with the Ellis method to teach the out. The part that doesnt work so good is when I'm going to finally put the toy away. He is okay with me moving the toy a little bit and he doesnt bite until I say "yes", but when I'm finally going to put the toy in a pocket he lunges for it and tries to grab it.

I guess he understod that when I remove the toy with one hand it usually means I'm going to finally put it away.

Should I just practice more with removing the toy with one hand? When I just try to keep the toy still in my hand he occasionally tries to bite it and continue the game, and can't relax at all.

Why do you use just one hand when taking it away?

That's for sure a cue to the dog because visual cues are stronger then verbal.

When I ask for an out I hold my hand(s) still because I want the dog to move it's head and mouth away from the tug as opposed to me pulling the tug back.

I will slooowly build more movement into "MY" movement as I hold the tug but as always I want the dog's head and mouth to move away first. If they reach for the tug it's a "Nope" and I hold still.

Trying to move the tug away quickly before the dog reaches for it is only going to put the dog in drive and your NOT going to beat the dog and you can possibly get nipped.

In the beginning make sure you continue the game more then you take ask for the out.

I will do maybe 2-3 random outs for every 10-12 random times continuing the game.

I say " random" because the dog will recognize a pattern faster then you realize you have one.

This dog might benefit from a terminal command. If you teach the dog that "Done" or "Over" means the session has ended, he will eventually learn to change his focus when that command is given. At his age, it may take a while for him to catch on, but he will learn when it it is time to give up and turn his attention to something else.

I can only confrim with what Bob and Duane say.

I'm not a very experienced handler, but all what they write matches fully with the experiences i've made. I've also learned the tugging frpm ME plus from Ivan Balabanov's video "Possession Games". From him I've also learned how to end a game definitally. The dog learns stopping the game with a terminal command but additionally by the different physical cues given by the handler. Ivan can let the tug fall to the ground, walk away and the dog follows him. He knows exactly: Game over.

I myself can do this in between too, but it needed practice to have all the undeliberate body cues under control. I primarily had to take care not to make any movements which the dog might misunderstand as an new invitation for tugging i.e. stepping just slightly backwards, of which I for some time even wasn't aware of. I also made sometimes the mistake to throw the tug a bit away from me, which the dog of course misunderstood.

Ivan can do this, but the whole compilation of rhe other cues are cristall clear for the dog. He can also allow him to pick up the tug, walk away and the dog follows him with the tug in his mouth. Because all the averbal behaviors are so unequivocal, The dog doesn't even try to invite him for the game again.

I myself can't do this yet, it's too far down the road. But if we start in a simple and very clear way, the dog's understanding what behaviors mean: "End!", will bit by bit grow