Hi all,

It's been an awful long time since I posted... I lost my dear old Oscar dog this past spring, but his successor came home in October and I think he'll be a companion worthy of O's very big shoes! "Hugo" is another Rhodesian Ridgeback - he's 5 months old as of yesterday and I'm guessing he weighs about 60-ish lbs (last weigh-in was mid-Dec and he was 54lbs...).

My question is a "what to ask the vet" question, and I'm not sure if diet is involved in current symptoms or not, but backstory: I switched Hugo to raw a week after he came home, when he was 10 weeks old. He had some off-and-on diarrhea - likely due to a little too much variety a little too fast - corrected to log stools (but still a little softer than I would like) with bland diet and simplifying protein. First introduction of beef kidney in mid-Dec set his gut off again, and again I did bland diet and single protein to correct - this time, upon rebound, PERFECT stools. For the last 3 weeks he's been pooping like a champ (I'm so proud!). Also behaving like the maniac enthusiastic young dog that he is...

However, we returned from a 2 week holiday up in Vermont on Sunday night (long stressful day during which he got quite agitated by travel and anxiety - we're working through some separation issues with him), and the next evening - Monday night - he had one log stool followed immediately by what I would describe as foul pancake batter (not the watery/mucusy diarrhea he had while transitioning to raw). Tuesday mid-day, another log followed by pancake batter (at which point I decided to give him bland diet for dinner); Tuesday night JUST pancake batter (and I did end up feeding him a small meal of boiled turkey & rice just before bed)... he woke me up today at 5am to produce a small pile of more of the same, after which I fed him some watered down broth for hydration... and this morning he's alert and responsive, but only interested in sleeping, and he spit out a piece of boiled turkey I tried to lure him into the kitchen with. He is not himself this morning... SO -

We're headed to the vet this afternoon and I'd like to know if there's something specific I should be inquiring about - he finished his puppy series shots early Dec and had rabies vax mid-Dec, with no reactions to any, so I'm assuming he's safe from something like Parvo (which I know has diarrhea symptoms)? He had a worming series when he first came home in October, but did throw up the last one upon getting carsick on the way home - could parasites cause such rapidly appearing symptoms (it's been 36 hours since first diarrhea)? I feel like if this was solely GI upset from the stress of travel, he'd still be acting normally and hungry after just a day of this... The disinterest in food always sets off big alarms with a normally food-crazy hound... Should note my vet is comfortable with my decision to feed raw but freely admits she can't help me trouble shoot diet issues because she doesn't have experience with it...

Sorry for the novel - any thoughts or suggestions that I can talk over with the vet would be appreciated. His gum color is good and he appears well hydrated, he's just sleeping through this morning, not pestering the crap out of me, as usual.

-Natalya

Threat level downgraded...

Hugo perked up a little past noon, came into the kitchen when he heard the stove - I made him a little scrambled eggs to go with a small portion of boiled turkey and rice and he ate it right up, along with a long drink of baited water. We went outside and he had a marginally better poop - a little watery followed by a bit of pudding. He then took me on an animated walk to our local park, where he was his normal self. He's currently looking for ways to get in trouble from his crate...

Vet visit will still happen this afternoon, just to be safe (and weigh him again!), but I'm feeling much better with his appetite and behavior somewhat back to normal.

Will update if anything pertinent comes of the vet visit!

My go to treatment for relief of dog diarrhea is almost always boiled rice. If the problem doesn't resolve in a day or so, then maybe a trip to the vet. I've been known to see if the dog would take a little pepto bismol but that's just me, and a vet's OK is always a good idea.

With all the stuff an active dog, especially a young one, can get into, and it doesn't take much stuff, its surprising there isn't more diarrhea.

Strangely, and counter intuitively, sometimes anxiety from change or sensory overload can result in either constipation or diarrhea.

Or, at least I think so.

Hi, Natalya. It's good to see you! I'm so sorry to hear about Oscar. He was well-known around here for a long time.

Congrats on your new pup, Hugo! I won't be any help with the raw feeing regimen. Hopefully, someone else will be along soon with advice in that department. By now, you're already at the vet, and I'm sure they'll want to check a poop sample for parasites, maybe giardia.

It's good to hear he's showing improvement, though. Let us know what the vet says.

Thank you, Mike! Boiled rice has always done the trick for me as well - canned pumpkin never worked as well as rice for Oscar, even though it's many people's go-to - and rice seems to be working for Hugo too, which is great.

Having been through a few bouts of diarrhea with this new pup, I was more frustrated than nervous to see it again Monday night... it wasn't till this morning when he really started to LOOK like he didn't feel well that I called the vet. I know puppies' systems offer much less tolerance for imbalance than adults, and since this is my first time feeding raw to a little guy (Oscar transitioned when he was a year old), I'm already primed to worry if I sense a disturbance in the puppy force. Luckily he seems to be on the mend - he enthusiastically ate another bland meal (rice/boiled turkey with broth) about an hour ago.

Hugo is a softer dog than Oscar - SUPER keyed into me (I picked him because he made more eye contact than any other pup in the litter, by a lot) and very affectionate, but I think those traits also contribute to some separation anxiety, which I'm hoping we can train out eventually. He gets very upset when I step out of the house - crying frantically if he's crated, or pacing from door to door across the house to look out the windows (boyfriend does not elicit this response from him). Last Sunday, travel day, there was a lot of crating while we packed the car, more when we got home and unpacked the car, then spent a few hours shoveling out a parking space... he got so stressed out at one point he ended up exhausted and panting, despite the fact that both of his humans were in and out of the house, visibly and audibly close (and watchful that his anxiety didn't lead to harm). I'm now thinking the whole day was enough to upset his belly... I too believe that the digestive system is very much linked to emotions - I'm just slowly learning Hugo's sensitivities.

Thank you, Cheri - It's nice to be back here with familiar friends.

Oscar's loss was devastating for me. He made it to 12 and cancer didn't get him, which I'm very proud of, but things went downhill quickly at the end, in the way that small things can turn into huge things when you're that old. His online presence made him friends around the world that we've never even met... the response to his passing was heart-warming. Hugo has a lot of dog to live up to, but he also has a lot to teach me about dogs that are NOT Oscar, and for that I'm so excited! The most remarkable difference is his desire for affection; Oscar always needed to be in the same room as me but didn't really enjoy being touched all that much (he put up with it because he loved me, but I know he didn't like it) - Hugo... is a lap dog - MUST be leaning up against, laying beside (or on), or otherwise touching his people... it's hugely endearing.

We're off to the vet - will report back!

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

Thank you, Cheri - It's nice to be back here with familiar friends.

Oscar's loss was devastating for me. He made it to 12 and cancer didn't get him, which I'm very proud of, but things went downhill quickly at the end, in the way that small things can turn into huge things when you're that old. His online presence made him friends around the world that we've never even met... the response to his passing was heart-warming. Hugo has a lot of dog to live up to, but he also has a lot to teach me about dogs that are NOT Oscar, and for that I'm so excited! The most remarkable difference is his desire for affection; Oscar always needed to be in the same room as me but didn't really enjoy being touched all that much (he put up with it because he loved me, but I know he didn't like it) - Hugo... is a lap dog - MUST be leaning up against, laying beside (or on), or otherwise touching his people... it's hugely endearing.

We're off to the vet - will report back!

Sad news & then Happy news, Natalya -- My deepest condolences on your loss of Oscar ... So many of us LOVED him from afar, and now you have Hugo (his kindred spirit) to help lift your spirits once more.

Thank you, Candi!

Quick update - Vet actually found nothing amiss on exam yesterday: temp normal, no abdominal pain. She prescribed us a strong probiotic and we're waiting on tests from a fecal exam, though to be honest, I think this was either stress-based GI upset, or *possibly* caused by about a TBsp of novel organ meat that I fed on Monday morning (this seems unlikely to me though).

He did get us up to go out about ever hour last night between 11pm and 5am - decreasing amounts of pretty watery diarrhea - and this morning I'm pretty sure his little tank was completely empty. He woke up bushy tailed and ready for a romp/walk, and very hungry for breakfast - which I made up of boiled rice and some Stella & Chewys turkey patties (they're mild but balanced in nutrition, and this has worked in the past for easing his gut back into food. He is currently his pesky self, busy, busy, busy till his late-morning nap. Fingers crossed poops start to look better today!

It's great to see you back online, Natalya!

I'm so sorry about dear Oscar, who was known and loved on LB. He bequeathed a home all prepared for the new guy, the way such a personable and beloved dog does. Lucky Hugo!

What was that new organ meat Monday morning, BTW? And what organ meat(s) had he been getting prior to that?

(I too have used Stella & Chewy's dehydrated patties with a dog whose gut sometimes needs a bland and mild food like that for a while. And I'm with the rice fans for diarrhea -- soupy, well-cooked rice, made with extra water and cooked until the grains are splaying at the ends, served without draining off the extra water.)

Like Cheri, I too thought of giardia, considering the vacation time, possibly around unknown water sources, and the foul-smelling diarrhea. It could've been picked up before the vacation, too, since it's often asymptomatic until stress triggers symptoms. And it can be recurring, dormant except in times of stress or another illness, etc. Did the vet mention giardia?


I started to address separation anxiety, and then thought that you might be planning another post about that.. (I've had a couple of adopted guys who needed and benefited from work around separation issues.)

Again, it's so nice to see you again, Natalya!

Hi Connie! Thank you so much - great to hear from you.

The first organ meat I phased into Hugo's diet was liver (chicken first, then beef), the next was beef kidney (which set off a little diarrhea), the next was lamb kidney (no problems with that). This past Monday, after multiple weeks of awesome poop, I added about 1 TBsp of veal brain (this is not something I see very often, so when I saw it in a high-end butcher shop in Boston I thought we'd give it a try).

The vet did not mention giardia. I guess he could have picked something up before we went on holiday, but the temps in Vermont were bitterly cold (below freezing daytime highs) for nearly the entire 2 weeks we were there, so, definitely no dirty water to sample! We arrived back to Boston Sunday night on the heels of a blizzard, so again, quite cold and snowy here immediately preceding the onset of the diarrhea. After reading a bit just now, it sounds like giardia could easily have caused his symptoms... I'm just not sure it makes sense from the aspect of transmission. We DID bring in a poop sample for the vet, but messy poops in snow are a recipe for inaccurate test results - and giradia is tough to spot? so I'm not sure they'll find anything.

Would a puppy with giardia rebound without treatment?

Another update - Hugo has pooped only twice since 5am Wednesday morning (the night of going outside every hour on the hour...), both of these latest poops were last night, about 2 hours apart, and they were modest watery followed by pudding. It seems like what amounted to a 12-hour fast (while he was feeling sickest), followed by rice and bland diet are doing the trick and things are slowing down in his gut. His behavior is 100% back to normal, tummy gurgling sounds are much diminished - he was a bouncy pest all day long today, so, I'm optimistic (but I'll feel a whole lot better if his next poop is even a little bit solid!).

I'll post separately about the anxiety issues if we continue to struggle. I've never had to deal with this and am wondering how much of it is his personality, and how much is him still being a relative baby. I asked his breeder if he knew of any anxiety issues in any of his pups/dogs, and he said he wasn't aware (I trust this individual as he's been very open about his breeding program and the health of his critters thus far - and I know he keeps up with his puppy people, some of whom have multiple dogs from him). Hugo is not at all a fearful dog, and I've been very impressed by his smarts so far, but he is quit a bit softer than Oscar in temperament. A new dog, a new wild ride.