Ok, when getting the health clearences for breeding stock, which ones are necessary? which ones might be overkill?

I think we can all agree that Hip Dysplasia is a necessary one. But what about elbow dysplasia? What about cardiac? Are these both necessary or will testing for them too and making them a requirement for breeding take away too many dogs from the gene pool? Or will testing for them and making them a requirement for breeding the best way to ensure that these diseases don't become a problem down the line?

Anyone have an opinion on this?

or will testing for them too and making them a requirement for breeding take away too many dogs from the gene pool?

Breeding a dog with cardio problems will not be beneficial to the gene pool in any way shape or form. Yeah, you have more pups, but they are dead at EARLY ages, like 5...

Elbows are to me as, or more important than Hips. The dog carries a lot of weight on the elbows, even more than the hips, but the majority of breeders that I have seen either don't test, or at least don't advertise that testing. I look at it this way, the dog is already out, it is only a little more money to do the elbows at the same time, and in the long run it could save both you and your puppy buyers a lot of greif and money.

This topic was from another message board regarding making elbow dysplasia mandantory for breeding. I expanded on it with Cardiac because that is another problem in my particular breed.

The basic arguement against it is that, if a dog is exceptional in everything else, should we really eliminate them based on a bad elbow rating? How many dogs today that are being used at stud with just a hip clearence, would be taken out of the gene pool because of a bad elbow xray? Eliminating too many of these top dogs would leave us with a very small gene pool.

My arguement is that, I think elbows and cardiac are just as important as hips. I think not testing for them is bad in itself - you don't know what your passing on if you don't check. Then comes the point where, you checked the dog and it has ED or a cardiac problem, and you have to decided to keep breeding the dog or not.

If we decide to breed to the ED+++ dog, how will this effect the gene pool in the future? Will elbow dysplasia become as prevalent as hip dysplasia is now?

I don't think that, with the number of dogs in our breed, that weeding out the faulty ones would necessarily make the gene pool too small. Is it worthwhile to risk a smaller gene pool if it means a healthier one?

Cardiac falls in there too. I have a friend who's dog died while on a walk at the beach from a cardiac problem and the dog wasn't even 2 years old yet!

I think if we have the equipment to start checking for these problems, we should definately get them checked.

I don't think that, with the number of dogs in our breed, that weeding out the faulty ones would necessarily make the gene pool too small. Is it worthwhile to risk a smaller gene pool if it means a healthier one?

This all depends on how large the genepool is, if you avoid breeding with all dogs that are affected by HD and ED in a breed where many dogs have this problem, you could end up having even more serious problems just because of concentrating on to few breedingdogs. Whats need to be done is to see which regulation is acceptable in a certain breed, and then avoiding the worst dogs for breeding. Which such a policiy you could as time goes by still reducing the number of affected dogs with selective breeding.

ED is found in more than 40% of the swedish rotts, but serious cases are rare. Most dogs even with a remark of ED shows no problems. Most serious breeders try to breed only ED-free dogs, but we can´t shut out over 40% of the breedingdogs to make sure all are ED-free, this could lead to a disaster for the breed. What good is ED-free dogs if we loose other important traits like drives and character. So the answear to your question is that if a bitch is of excellent character, such a dog could be used sometimes in the breedings. Of course it´s best if all dogs are free from both HD and ED but that is not realistic in several breeds.

Get everything cert'd that is relevent to your breed.

NEVER breed a dog that can't get a cert.

Elbows are a necessity in my opinion as well as others.

Hi everyone! This topic hits home with me. I've wrestled with elbow dysplasia on three of my five rotts, two having surgery. One of the dogs, Megan, passed hip and elbow certification, but came down with elbow dysplasia eight months later (coronoid process). She was working hard during that time, competing in sheep herding in large open fields. We don't work our rotts hard enough to stress these joints, borderline weaknesses don't readily show. They're there, and shame on us for not looking,,,there are too many rottie owners who have their heads in the sand! A 40% rate of elbow dysplasia is a sad reflection on breeding priorities. The border collie is free of elbow dysplasia, because the ones that don't hold up aren't bred. They don't care about looks, just get the job done. A little more of that in the rottweiler breed would have made a great improvement in soundness. I'm in support of screening via certification,,,then work that dog, see if it really is sound. Susan

Just a comment, All the dogs in the ADRK IN Germany are tested for ED. Every dog in the register will have the cert. on him. So, is the 40% of them coming from the breeders in the US?? Is it safe to say breeding American lines is the problem? Every Rott i have had including now there bloodline is pure German, is this why i havent seen this problem in my dogs? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I don't have Rottweilers and I am not very educated on elbow dysplasia although I know some people who have had to put dogs down because of severe elbow problems.

My problem with joint disease is the information I have been reading that states, while the genetic elements must be present for the condition to manifest itself........that only accounts for 25% or so of the chance that your animal will develop it. In other words-- diet,exercise and environment can aggravate or prevent the joint malformation from showing up.

I am not saying breeding animals should not be screened for joint, heart and eye problems....I just think there are more variables than just starting out with parents that check out OK.

When I got my first brood bitch as a puppy from Germany in the 80's I knew little or nothing about cardio. Guess what my bitch died from at 9 years?? Cardio. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> When I starting looking at the bloodlines and found dogs that died early, I questioned the people I knew in Germany. Their answer...death of natural causes. They consider a heart stopping a "natural cause" I guess..even at 3 or 4 years old!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

In my opinion, the 40% is originally german stock generations back that have not been screened or worked sufficiently to pinpoint the weakness. One of my females was sired by a prominent import, had a lot of Sch III, ADs on just about every dog in a four generation pedigree. That's on the sire's side. The dam came from AKC, hip clearance, no elbow clearance. Several well know AKC dogs on the dam's side. Mostly older, established rottie stock, no elbow certifications. Five out of six in that litter had grade 1 or grade 2 elbows. None showed any signs of lameness then or now (they are 4 yrs old), but we will "pay the price" later on. I know several well established rottie breeders that will breed a grade 1 bitch if there is not signs of lameness. So we're still keeping the genetics in line to maintain elbow dysplasia. And even certification alone will not assure us that the dysplastic elbow joint will be identified. Megan is a prime example of that.

I had heard that the SV was now rating elbows but not a requirement for breeding. Does anyone know how to get their dog's elbow's x-rays read by the SV. I know the hips you can go through USA can the elbows too?