Cat like stalking
#55954 - 02/17/2004 10:32 PM |
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I am PP training a pitbull. It is the first pitbull I ever worked. He barks and acts agressive on command or if the helper agitates at a distance of 5-15 feet. He will immediately attack on command at a distance of 5-15 feet but he prefers complete silence when doing it (he won't make a sound just slam you like a train.) What is interesting is his behavior during training at a distance of 20' or more or his behavior in my business during the day as people come and go. At 20' or more he won't bark unless comanded to he will prefer stealth. When told to attack at a distance during training he will either slowly and powerfully walk straight up to the agitator pause around 10'15' away, turn sideways in fake disinterest then suddenly strike just when he seems the least interested. Or he will meander over going side to side happy and care free, as he gets closer he starts looking for cover along the way so he can move up slowly stalking like a cat and preparing a strike. He strikes hard and with no fear but prefers stealth. In my business during the day anyone can enter and he accepts them with good manners and a happy tail wag. Sometimes if a guy seems suspicious he will walk up and lightly body check the guy stare at him for a brief second then blend himself into the surroundings of our office. If that is not weird enough he is somewhere nearby lurking and watching, many times I don't even know exactly where he went to in our small office but he is watching, stalking like a cat. If something deemed strange happens, like lightning the dog pops out of thin air and is in front of the guy to check him out again. The dog gives a brief stare, and then struts away in his fake disinterested manner. This dog is very friendly has a good temperament and has proven himself reliable around all children and friendly strangers. I am not sure this behavior is a bad thing in a PP dog. As a matter of fact it seems convenient that the dog does not always verbally alert making a racket in the office when suspicious like other breeds I have worked with. He seems much more laid back. It is kind of unnerving to see him setting up, stalking and silently preparing for a strike. There was one time recently when a visitor to the office was being kind of loud and started to come into an area that we generally do not permit visitors. There is aways a lot going on so I paid no mind until I saw the dog out of the corner of my eye flying out of nowhere in the mans direction. I gave a rather calm out so not to panic anyone and the dog immediately went from a fast dash to a slow walk, Walked up to the guy stared at him then walked away. The dog is very good natured and obedient. My only real concern is that he may one day make a silent judgement call on someone and I will not know until the person is being hit by the dog.
Like I said this is the first pitbull I have ever worked with. Please let me know if any experienced pitbull PP people or other experienced PP trainers have any thoughts on the behavior.
Thanks for your insights!
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Re: Cat like stalking
[Re: Tim Glaesman ]
#55955 - 02/17/2004 10:57 PM |
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I've never trained a Pitt, or any other breed for PP, but what you described is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I think most here will agree with me that NO PP dog should be allowed to run loose in a business where people come and go. JMO.
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Re: Cat like stalking
[Re: Tim Glaesman ]
#55956 - 02/18/2004 01:12 AM |
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One day you might read his funky stalk and stare wrong and end up paying alot of money to someone.
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Re: Cat like stalking
[Re: Tim Glaesman ]
#55957 - 02/18/2004 02:11 AM |
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If I were in the position where I needed a dog in a place of business that had customers in and out, I would put him behind the counter area. Free access to people coming and going is a mistake.
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Re: Cat like stalking
[Re: Tim Glaesman ]
#55958 - 02/18/2004 02:21 AM |
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I sold a nice protection dog a few years ago to a couple that owned a gas station along the coast. They worked late hours and felt the need for some added protection. They did a little construction and made it so people entering to pay didn't have access to behind the counter where the dog was. The service door went to the area behind the counter.
The public never had free access to the dog, but they sure knew he was there. The dog could get over the counter or could be let out the service door if, God forbid, there was a need.
That really needs to be the set-up in businesses with bite dogs. Anything else is pretty stupid.
Allowing the kind of behavior your dog shows isn't the best idea either.
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Re: Cat like stalking
[Re: Tim Glaesman ]
#55959 - 02/18/2004 07:54 AM |
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Heres my situation. I own a small family business, the business is connected to the house by a enclosed walkway. On the business end there is a office with 4 desks/ employees and the office is connected to a warehouse. We don't recieve many uninvited walk ins we are a company the sells and markets niche construction services over the phone and in person. Since everyone is usually on the phone I wanted a very quiet dog. In addition I have young teen age daughters living there along with me and my wife. Many times I go out of town or am on the road. There are times when some very strange guys show up to make deliveries etc. Sometimes they will show up late after business has long since closed. After seeing no one answers at the business they come up to the house and try to get someone to accept a late delivery, they will always try to get in to make a phone call. This has happened on occasion when no adults were home. I never intended the dog to be in the office during the day but since 2 family members work there he has extended his range into the office wanting to be with his family during the day. Since generally the dog always sees the same 4 people accept for deliveries etc. and he has been so well socialized and obedience trained I really did not have a problem with him hanging around the office during the day. My situation seemed like one that the use of a PP dog would be prudent. I guess I could keep him up at the house during the day if that is the consenus. EVERYONE in the office likes him around.
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Re: Cat like stalking
[Re: Tim Glaesman ]
#55960 - 02/18/2004 10:02 AM |
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Tim,
I'm going to offer my advice here, and I'm giving it as someone who has been an expert witness in dog bite cases - I'm also the chairman of an animal control board for a large county, and I can put myself into most dog owner's shoes.
You'd better start showing a little common sense here. In a previous post, you've told us that your neighbors had complained while you trained protection in your backyard, resulting in the local Police department coming out. You were advised by the officers ( and questionable the K- unit ) to stop training your dog. All that , regardless of the legality involved, or the officer's right to tell you to stop training, is now likely public record. And that record *will* be used against you in a dogbite case, believe me!
A PPD dog that stalks instead of giving warning barks/growls would end up being called an "attack dog" by a smart attorney in a lawsuit, further damaging any possible defense you might have during a lawsuit. You would get financially hosed, and the dog would be destroyed - end of story.
The downside to owning a dog like this is so high that a person would have to be stupid or crazy to own him ( and I own what many people on this board consider to be a dangerous dog )
To have a dog like that at a business is so stupid that I can hardly put it into words. Any insurance company that insures your business would immediately drop you if they knew your dog was on site. Get rid of the dog, or at least leave him at home, unless you're looking forward to losing your business over a bite lawsuit.
It will only take one slip, one mistake, for you to possibly lose everything. No dog or human being is 100% - never has been, never will be.
It's not worth the risk - don't let your ego or pride make you end up broke ( and someone possibly injured ) over a mistake like this.
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Re: Cat like stalking
[Re: Tim Glaesman ]
#55961 - 02/18/2004 01:35 PM |
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If your worried about protection for your family when your gone, you can always invest in a security system with remote panic buttons to contact for police, fire, & medical help. Lot cheaper then a lawsuit. I know I personally wouldn't like to body checked by a dog just for walking into your establishment.
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Re: Cat like stalking
[Re: Tim Glaesman ]
#55962 - 02/18/2004 02:37 PM |
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A security system is nice, but a protection dog is also nice. You just have to make the necessary life changes to control the animal effectively.
From the way it sounds, you may be able to let your dog be around you and the few people in the office. . .make the changes necessary to control the dog with physical barriers between him and where there is access to the public. If at any time there are people that need to enter the area where the dog is, he should be crated or put up.
No free access to people. . .none. The few office workers need to also understand the rules and be willing to follow them. Thats asking a lot, so you might still want to re-think the dog in the work environment.
I don't fault you at all for having the dog in the house, thats where he belongs. But the family also needs to understand the rules and what the dog is for. The dog should help protect them by acting as a deterent, or an excuse. "I'm sorry, our dog wouldn't like it if you came in the house. You'll have to leave the delivery by the door, or bring it back during business hours." (While said dog is barking/snarling his head off at the door)
People see an aggressive LOOKING dog in the home, thoughts of evil doing may take a back seat to thoughts of being eaten alive.
That is a proper use of a protection dog. The business and what you have been doing up to this point is another story my friend.
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Re: Cat like stalking
[Re: Tim Glaesman ]
#55963 - 02/18/2004 04:10 PM |
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ROBERT!!!
Are you telling me that you'd have Emma at a business that you owned, even with Flippin' lion cage bars for security?
Cripes, *you* barely survive your dog, I can't believe you'd ever be comfortable at a business with employees about.
At home...oh, yeah! I sleep better with a monster protecting me.
But at work - I wouldn't even consider it.
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