Hello. I recently purchased Ed's dog obedience video. I have watched it a couple of times, and it makes sense to me, and I loved seeing how even though the dog got corrections, he was still so enthusiastic about training and looked so incredibly proud of himself when he knew he did something right. So, today I started my first training session, and I was going to work on sit. This is the first time I used the prong collar for training, but I have been using it for maybe a month now for walks. I was training.. well attempting to train Jack. Jack knew the sit command so I didn't start out with food. He knew sit, but he just didn't listen to the command all of the time. Well, he didn't sit, so I had to correct him of course ( And when I corrected him he yelped! Is that normal? I know sometimes I would hear a yelp on the video, and I am not trying to make him yelp, but he wouldn't pay any attention to anny weaker corrections). When he did sit, I tried my best to act very enthusiastic and kept on telling him and praising him in an excited voice "Good boy, Jack! Good sit!!" and stuff. And this is were I felt very unconfortable and even guilty somehow. Whenever I praised him, he didn't even look at me, he didn't even wag his tail or look the least bit happy! I was trying my hardest to show him it was a good thing to the poitn where I almost had to jump up and down with all of the excitement I was trying to put out for him. Still nothing! He just looked straight ahead or looked behind him. He didn't seem to have any fun at all! He wasn't the least bit proud of himself. I then would walk him around a bit (we were in the backyard) and then put him in a sit, correct him if I had to, and praised a lot, just to see if he would snap out of it. Still nothing! I did it maybe only 5 times and then unhooked the prong and stopped the session for now because it wasn't getting anywhere. It was actually depressing to me.

My little sister was helping me out by training Lacey (our 11 year old Sheltie). She didn't have a prong. I didn't think she needed one because she seems to be soft and a simple "no" or something is usually enough. Well we tried to be enthusiastic with her too, and still no enjoyment from her either. She didn't seem proud of herself either. Also she refused to go in the grass for some odd reason.

So then we moved them into our kitchen, thinking maybe the backyard was too much too soon. They listened a little better, but they still didn't seem happy and I was very bummed out because of what happened previously, so we took them on a walk to let them (and myself) shake off any tension or something.

It seems like it has always been kind of this way, and I am not sure why this is happening. I pay attention to them a lot and walk them regularly and I play with them if they are in a roudy mood (I play with them at least a few times a week). So I don't understand why they seem so unhappy! They never seem proud of anything they do! Has anyone experienced something like this? Should I try using food next time? I just figured I didn't need it because they KNOW the commands, they just don't always listen. Someone please help =(

He wasn't acting like he was having a good time because he wasn't having a good time. lol He was getting prong corrections, no treats, no toys, praise only (which he clearly found non-motivating). I think it's easy to see why he was bla. If you want a happy working dog, you're going to have to give him something to be happy about. Know what I mean?

Use treats, use toys, use play, praise, etc. Make it fun. This doesn't mean you can't ever use corrections, but when you do correct redirect right back into play and work. Get excited yourself. Work on your relationship with the dog. Training (at the beginning stages at least) is just play that is being directed and used to your advantage. If you can get ahold of it, the book "Purely Positive" by Sheila Booth is a great book. Also, to incorporate corrections, the other book she wrote (with Gottfried Dildei) is great. It's called Schutzhund Obedience: Training in Drive. Anyway have fun, don't get upset, and hang in there! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks. I am going to try my make it more fun but eh, my dogs seemed to have some sort of depression issue or something! I think it may be because I am the main person who does anything with them, so if I can't or I am not there, they don't have anything to do. By the way, I just wanted to make sure you know my dogs are not Schutzhund dogs. I am just trying to get their obdeience training up to par.

Melody,
I agree with Tara that it sounds like your dog needs more motivation than just the intelligible (to them) sound of your verbal praise. (Been there, done that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Many of the dogs used in Ed's videos have quite a bit of genetic drive (energy, motivation). The higher the drives the easier it is to teach a dog. The lower the drives the more motivation you will have to use to keep his interest level up.

Dogs can be motivated two ways: through rewards (toys, food) or through fear/pain (compulsion). I prefer the former as a motivator, and most definately in the learning stages.

BTW, you play with your dogs "a few times a week"?
Mmmm...
Maybe that's not enough. ie, we have two dogs and each get to play a 20 min two-ball game with us TWICE PER DAY....in addition to any training time.
That is probably a bit much for some folks, but it gives you the idea of what it may take to get a happy worker.

If you want a working dog, you have to do your best when picking from the litter. Not the cutest, I say this only because, most working prospects, showing all the good signs of a working dog as a pup, don't loose it unless they are abused, you sound to care for your animals very much, so I rule that out. IMO, some dogs just are not cut to work, they rather live in the shade with Lemonade!

Lol, I doubt I have very good working dogs. I did not pick them out myself. Our sheltie was given to us at a very very young age as a gift (Which I look back and totally disagree with!! Don't listen to your little children claiming they can take care of a dog! LOL). The other is my sisters dog who was a foster dog. The fosters told my sister that they found him around dumpsters as a puppy. He is pretty skittish so he either has a weird temperment or he was abused. They are decent pets most of the time but I probably.. hopefully.. could have found better tempered dogs.

Thanks about the tips of playing! I am still new to the REAL dog world of training and care, so I can't know on my own how much play my dogs really need. I don't know if I could do twice a day but I will certainly do once a day =).

Also, maybe some of their problems comes from their food? They were on pedigree but now they are on beneful. I want to feed them raw more than anything but my mom won't let me. I wanted to by them human grade dog food but.... my mom won't let me buy that either!!! Some people just don't get it =/. So, what is the cheapest human grade dog food out there?

About the cheapest you're going to find is Solid Gold. It's roughly $1 a pound, give or take a few cents. Getting them off of Beneful would be a priority, though. The stuff is horrible. Pedigree is about the same.

If you're going more for cost, you might want to try Nutro Natural Choice. It's at least a step up.


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Now, I have a question about using different things as motivators:

My foster dog, Charlie (the hound/dobie mix - he's more hound than anything), is learning to sit on command. I've been using Lou Castle's e-collar methods with him. He is pretty much the same way when it comes to training time. No matter how enthusiastically I praise him, he doesn't even look at me. He's VERY food motivated, but if I have treats, he focuses ONLY on the treat and pays no attention to anything I try to get him to do. His attention is on how he can get the treat out of my hand or pocket or whatever. He's not very gentle about it either - he will gnaw and bite my hand. Also, if I have treats, he will immediately sit whether I tell him to or not. He does the same at feeding time. That's a good thing, but when there's no treat, he will not sit (meaning to me that he does not know what the command means, but that if I have food and he sits, that he gets it.)

He's the same way with a ball, but will only chase it when I throw it. Once he gets to it he just sniffs it and walks off (it's not moving anymore, so why bother with it).

Any suggestions??

Melody I think training some older dogs is harder because they are not use to it. For 5-10 yrs it was not introduced, and now whats this?? Not having any training and just getting along, was the norm. Now all of a sudden she wants us to "Sit" on command!

This is going to bring about non euthuiastic results at 1st. But keep it up it makes the dog more controlable and acceptable in various environment. I find until they get use to food or toy, it can be a distraction, to some dogs.

LOL, :rolleyes: They don't do well in the backyard on grass and one refuse to go in the grass. Talk about Spoiled rotten another reason why they need Ob training is they keep trying to tell you whats they want to do. I see this as a test of will, I ain't liking this any because I've never had to do this before.

If they were trained from a puppy that this how training goes, they would get excited at the sight of the collar/ maybe not a prong collar <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> .

Sticking their head through the loop on their own. It would be a regiment of closeness and pride, they would want to train, to be with you.

When I pickup the leashs with my dogs are almost diving through the air with excitement, thinking we are either training or loading up in the jeep to go train.

Stick it out and make it fun during/after they learn the command with the food/toy, 1st you have to win the War of the mind. It is harder to teach an old dog, new Ob tricks, Sometimes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

When I first started working with my Lab, who I adopted at 1.5 years of age, he wasn't enthusiastic either. He knew all his basic commands already, but there was no "joy" in obedience for him. I took off the prong and started using motivation only, and immediately saw a complete 180 in his attitude. I've used his retrieve drive as well as clicker training since, and I don't even need a prong at all. He ended up being the star of his obedience class.

As far as food, if there is a Costco near you, the Kirkland Lamb and Rice is actually Diamond (you can find their website by doing a search for "Diamond Pet Foods") and isn't too bad. It's only $17.99/40 lb. My two girl dogs are doing very well on it. It was recommended to me by a Labrador breeder who I respect a great deal.

Thanks for all of the replies =). Maybe my dogs were spoiled... I am reall ynot sure on this though. The sheltie does this I think because she used to run with my dad on paths and trails, so she loves to stay on sidewalks and stuff. They are SORT of trained, to the eyes of other people. But my family has always treated their "training" like them doing tricks, even for a sit. Their "training" consisted of those sits, stays, holding food on their nose, rolling over, shake... Stuff I wouldn't consider make a trained dog. Also, how should I make it fun for my old dog? She doesn't play with toys ever, for some reason, but I guess food will work with training, but what about when I PLAY with them? I feel like she is missing out because she doesn't "doggy play/ roughhouse" with the humans (but does with Jack a little), so I can't make her chase me or vice versa, and she doesn't play with toys.. so I am a little stumped. She seems to only like playing with me when there is snow outside oddly enough. Maybe it is becaus eI am all bundled up and I look funny =)