Does anyone have a good training progression for working dogs on the ground with the decoy?

Does anyone actually extend their protection work to cover fighting on the ground?

I go into this in my training DVD on Training Police Service Dogs to Search Buildings. http://leerburg.com/122.htm

Basically back tie the dog - the helper comes up lies down and it starts from there.

The way we do it is during suit work, the handler orders me to the ground. I stop fighting, go face down on the ground and after a few seconds, the dog is outed. If the dog is secure with this, the next time I go to the ground I'll work with him alittle and then progress to fighting. And we'll send him for a bite while I'm still on the ground and I'll stand back up or go to my knees and back down. And then muzzle work. I don't know if this is the best way or even a good way. It's just the way we did it and it worked.

I do this a little differently than Ed does. I like to have the dog on leash for the safety of the decoy and because this involves a lot of moving around.

I like to start out by teaching the dog to set his bite in a certain spot for the safety of the decoy during this work. If the decoy extends his arms straight out to the side, The line extends from one elbow across his chest, to the other elbow. In this area the decoy can grasp the dog's collar (I like to have him wear a 1" leather collar for this) so that if the dog goes to transfer his bite or comes off the bite the decoy can straight arm the dog and protect himself. I've found that if you bite just one decoy on the face, the rest tend to be too busy to work with you again.

Like most things I do it starts out gently and then escalates slowly. I up the ante a little at a time, carefully watching the dog and making sure that he's comfortable with each stage before advancing to the next. The best indicator of this is his tail. It should be gently wagging back and forth, held in a neutral position. If it goes too high or the wagging stops, I back up the training and let him win.

The first stage is simply enveloping the dog's head with the decoy's arms. This is one reason that the bite is placed as I've described. After the dog is comfortable with this, he grasps the dog's leather collar next time. Then he envelopes the head and steps across the leash so that the dog is between his legs and he's straddling the dog. He can't see the dog's tail at this point so the handler will have to tell him how the dog is feeling. This is the case at other points of this training as well, when the decoy can't see the dog's tail.

If the dog is OK with this then the decoy steps off him and goes to the next step which his going to the ground. This is done gently with the decoy (keeping the dog's head enveloped) squatting down as much as he can and then rolling backwards onto the ground. He should end up with the dog on top of him.

The next progression is to have the decoy wrap his legs around the dog. If the dog tolerates this well he should take the dog off his feet so the two of them are lying on their sides. The next step is for the decoy to get on top of the dog but with his weight supported on his elbows and knees. Then he slowly put his weight on the dog.

If, at any time the dog releases the bite, the decoy straight arms him and the handler takes him away. If the dog shows some concern at any stage of the training, back up. Work at that level for a few more sessions allowing him to become comfortable before moving up to the next stage. The idea is to let the dog win at each stage.

With some dogs it will take weeks to get to the final stage, some will never make it and some can do it on the first bite of the first day.

Lou,
Is this a chest bite? If so, is it more for safety or to help the decoy watch the dog? Or both? I usually catch them on my tricep or arm pit until we start getting serious. Do you see a problem with this?

Lou said elbow to elbow is the target zone, if I read correctly.


I like to give the dog a nice juicy armpit bite, this gives the dog plenty to hold onto and allows for a little more control should the dog decide to try and pop the decoy's head. I find it easier to roll and pull the dog away when I can headlock him under my arm.

Either way you need a good tie out, or a very good handler to hold the lead.

Will Rambeau, is there any part of ASR where the dog grips or fights the decoy on the ground?

Nope, no ground fighting in ASR.
However, for the ASR III title, scenarios involving the dog engaging decoys through severe opposition on stairs was used, which separates the men from the boys pretty quickly! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

During club training at our place we regularly ground fight the dogs on both bitesuit and with muzzle work to increase the intensity of the work. Very tiring as a decoy, let me say. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Actually, here's a link to the ASR rules page:
http://www.americanstreetring.org/rules.htm

Just reading the rules doesn't do the sport justice, the amount of pressure put on the dogs by the decoys is extreme and needs to be seen first hand to really understand the program.

Next ASR trial is July 2nd in Columbus, Georgia...it'll end up our annual "Watch our dogs and decoys melt from the heat and humidity Trial" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Kevin to see the proper bite position for this training have the decoy stand with his arms parallel to the ground. Now draw an imaginary line that runs from one elbow, across his chest to the other elbow. Anywhere along that line is an OK bite.

This is not the only acceptable bite for the street it's for the safety of the decoy during this training.

There's nothing wrong with the triceps or armpit bite except for this training neither of those allow you to wrap your arms around the dog's head to "envelope" it. They also don't allow the decoy to grasp the dog's collar so that the can "straight arm" him if he comes off the bite.