Yesterday my puppy and I were about 1 1/2 blocks from home when the little white piece of crap terrier down the street came at us. Before I could pick Fallon up, that dog was coming at us. I was between the two of them. No physical contact was made, but Fallon yelped and backed away. Is this considered to be an "attack"? Would this be considered to be a precoursor to dog aggression? If so, what do I do now? I don't let her play with other dogs.

Sounds like your puppy was startled, and there was no 'attack' because you were positioned well and picked your dog up.

Not too sure that I would have zero contact with other dogs. Dogs need to 'learn' to be dogs and reading other dogs body language and signals so they act appropriately (read don't OVER react and get fearful). If you have to panic every time a dog runs near, so will your pup.

If instead you are able to teach your pup that the world is full of other dogs, and that's ok, you'll have a confident and secure dog you can take out of the house.

During a puppies first year they need to be exposed to TONS of new things/people/dogs/sights/sounds/so they can take life in stride. And new and strange dogs are a part of life. You are responsible for making the meetings work out well. And, trust me, other off leashed dogs will be entering your life. You can't control that, but YOUR reaction and your pup's are under your control.

Some good sites to read up on are

http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/lib-Puppy.htm#soc

Here's some info about different aggressions:

http://www.flyingdogpress.com/aggressionbasics.html

Thanks Jenn. I didn't want her first experience with other dogs to be a bad one, and that's where it was headed. It confused me when Ed says that he NEVER lets his dogs play with other dogs. Why not? I'm supposing because his are working dogs? I'm considering training her to be a therapy dog, and certainly want her well socialized. So far it's been going well. We've interacted with kids, adults, strangers, public places..all without incident. She even plays with our cat, until the cat can't take it anymore. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Thanks again for the input.

I don't think that the main reason Ed doesn't let his dogs play with other dogs is because they are working dogs. I think it has more to do with the multitude of bad things that can happen. Unless you are confident the other dog is friendly and well-mannered, I wouldn't let it near my puppy. If you puppy is ever attacked, it could have problems because of it the rest of the life. Dog aggression later on is one of those problems. Also, dog fights can break out very quickly. Someone who isn't familiar with the signs leading up to a fight could very well miss it and end up with a dead dog. No matter how cute or sweet a dog seems, pack behavior is part of their nature and they are going to try to sort out who the boss is.
My sister made the mistake of letting two dogs play together and ended up with a dead one. She was watching them and standing two feet away the entire time. She thought it would be really good for my mother's chihuaha puppy to play with my dad's beagle when she took them out, because the beagle was so "sweet." That same "sweet" beagle killed that puppy about two minutes later over a stick.
So, just be really careful with your puppy and be conscious of what the dangers are before allowing your puppy to have contact with other dogs.

Jenn, I'm going to disagree with the advice that you're giving out here - I think it's potentially harmful and doesn't look at the "worst case" scenario of a loose dog encountering a puppy.

Letting a puppy near an unknown dog is simply dumb. If the unknown dog becomes aggressive and frightens the puppy, this can set up a life long dog aggressive response in that puppy, literally ruining it for most forms of work.

As Ed pointed out *very* clearly in the "Raising a Working Puppy" video, puppies should only interact with dogs that have a 100% stable response to puppies, and that would obviously mean that the other dog would have to be well known to you.

Jenn notes that "New and strange dogs may be a part of life", but those types of encounters should only occur when the dog is mature enough to handle the situation - not in puppyhood.

And Jenn - "You can't control that, but YOUR reaction and your pup's are under your control."
Soooooo, you're fine with an unknown dog aggressively attack the puppy that you scooped up into your arms to protect it? And maybe getting bitten yourself? I notice that way too often Jenn that you give advice that is a about 50% correct. You never seem to think a situation through to it's "worse case" scenario, which *can* happen just out on your neighborhood street. I always look at what is the worst thing that can happen and prepare for it. Paranoid? maybe....but I only have to be right *once*, and it pays off.

Tim,
Let me tell you a personal experience. When my GSD was a pup, we would take walks in our neighborhood. I have exposed her to just about everything and she is an exceptionally stable and adaptable dog. One of my friends has a Mal-X and we would often pass on our walks.

One day we stopped and talked and my girl was in a sit (she was about 20 weeks at the time), out of the blue, this Mal-X just rushed her (aggressively). No physical harm was done, but the impression was made. On walks now,(2 1/2 yrs later) this dog puts on ferocious displays behind his fence.

Her temperament to other dogs can be a bit domineering, but she will get along and play with compatible dogs and has been in dog groups (ie: an off lead obedience demonstration with 8 other dogs).

On walks, she will note other dogs and there are always different displays of body language, depending on the dog, but she minds her manners whilst on lead.

Now for the Mal-X, she HATES him and would love to have the opportunity to tear him apart. She almost did yesterday <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. I was trying to put my neighbor's puppy back in his yard (another story) when my friend comes up the street and her dog is off-lead. My dog has never left the yard when they have walked by before. This time it was different, maybe because I was out on the street, who knows. My dog left a standing position and went over the 4' 10" wall and went for the Mal-X. Luckily, all was controlled quickly. Of course the Mal is a big chicken outside of his fence and my girl is a bit bigger and stronger now. Fortunately, it seems, her dog aggression is focused on the source.

A bit long winded...but each dog will have a a different reaction, and I agree (with Will) that pups which experience aggressive/bullying/domineering incidents from other dogs will be imprinted and affected to some degree.

When you walk your dog, being the alpha, you have to be first to launch the offensive. I wouldn't pick your dog up, that creates more problems and limits your ability. Carry a stick. Usually body language, facial expressions and a big mouth is all you usually need to avert an incident. Then there is the universal sign most dogs allowed to roam off lead know, the stooping and picking up of a rock. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

QUOTE from Maggie: When you walk your dog, being the alpha, you have to be first to launch the offensive. I wouldn't pick your dog up, that creates more problems and limits your ability. Carry a stick. Usually body language, facial expressions and a big mouth is all you usually need to avert an incident. Then there is the universal sign most dogs allowed to roam off lead know, the stooping and picking up of a rock. END

And I sure do agree 100% with Will and everyone else: Socialization with ONLY dogs you know VERY WELL while yours is a puppy.

doesn't Ed say in his video 8 weeks to 8 months to pick up your puppy to defend it? that's where i got the idea. I'm looking for a night stick. maybe one of those miniature baseball bats. maybe the regulation size. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Not sure how well I could pick up my 8 month old GSD pup, but a younger one is fine.

And I'm not a proponent of encouraging aggressive dogs to scare my pups. Sorry if that's the impression I gave. I would like to have all my pup's meeting be with dog's I know, in a controlled environment, and that turn out well.
That would be my goal.

Reality is that I'd say about 95 percent of the dogs my pups meet in their first year are that way. I pay attention, I have a plan, I know the dogs we meet. The other 5 percent of the dogs are not 'polite' or maybe overwhelming, or have inappropriate behavior, and it's MY responsiblity to deal with these dogs, not my puppy.

And I do not carry a stick.

I also have Therapy dogs, and it is very important our dogs get along well with others. They do not have to be best friends, but they have to be comfortable and behave. And the way I've gotten my dogs to do this is by meeting and being with hundreds (thousands?) of dogs over the years.

Most dog meetings are not truly aggressive. If your pup slipped it's leash to run up to someone, and they slammed into it with a bat, would you be ok with that because they didn't KNOW your pup and THOUGHT it was aggressive?

I know what I have done with my dogs and what has worked. I have 2 GSD's, NOT FOR PROTECTION DOGS, so I am not speaking about socializing them. But for therapy dogs, agility dogs (hey, just found out Elsa is #9 in AKC German Shepherds for agility in the first 6 months of 2005), and dogs I can trust at family reunions (with other dogs) and in hotels/motels (sharing a room with friends and their dogs) and going to the German Shepherd Nationals, and going to Dog Expos, and Dog Seminars/Clinic, training, I know that my dogs are perfect. They never start a fight and look to me if an oncoming dog isn't behaving right. And my dog's know what 'right' is because they have been around so many other dogs.

The handful of 'real' attacks I've had in the past 12 years have either been from a dog coming in off leash, low and fast, and with only my dogs in their view. Or from a leashed dog that darted out to the end of a 6 foot leash (plus a 3' arm means quite a distance) to snap and retreat. And both of these times, the only way I could have prevented it would have been to stay home, not an option for me and 'the girls'. And, truthfully, neither of these times was any blood drawn from my dogs, and I reacted fast and at the other dog.

Tim, have you heard of the DVD/Video called 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugass? Really great at showing how dogs learn 'dog' by being with dogs and all the different cues and signals they are constantly throwing out that we dumb humans miss!

NOT THAT I'M in this happy cloud saying no dogs are vicious. I know there are. But I want to slant the field in my favor that I know MY dogs behavior is always appropriate and calming and not starting the fight, and this is something a puppy naturally can learn by being around other dogs (good dogs!) during their first year. If 1/2 the dogs (or people!) in a fight don't want to fight, it makes the fight more difficult to start.

Jenn, I have a couple of questions for you about your previous post. If you do not carry a stick, what have you done in the past when approached by an aggressive dog? Just curious.
Also, I don't think anyone on the board is advocating hitting a friendly dog with a baseball bat as you asked in the previous post. I have a ten year old female gsd. I live in the country and I take her on walks regularly. Around here, we have a problem of dogs being allowed to pack up and run wild together. Because of that, I carry a walking stick and bear spray. I will not hesitate to whack aggressive dogs with it.
There is a big difference, in my opinion, in a puppy being put in a position of beng frightened by another stronger, more mature dog and a grown dog being challenged by other adult dogs. It has the potential to cause way more problems than it will ever help. I have always thought it was better to avoid problems like that than to try to fix them later.
I do not understand your logic in some of your posts and I think you and your dogs have just been really lucky thus far.