I have worked with my female Am Staff, I've taken control in the house from her. I can now walk her no pulling, when she sees another dog she gets a voice command leave it, sometimes she challanges and then she gets a correction with another leave it command. I will step her off the path and make her sit (very tight lead) and look at me until the other dog passes, she will do all of this but while she sits she shakes and whines like she is ready to jump out of her skin. Once the dog passes she comes right back to my left side and her head smooths out and she is care free again. Has anyone else seen this? Should I try another tactic, or is this something that will go away in time. Before I started working with her she would wildly lunge at any other dog growling and whining, now she will sit and look at me but this shaking/whining stuff happens.....any insight or suggestions. Hope this is part of her progression.

She is inhibiting a natural response and what you are seeing is her body showing the tension that this causes. My Mal does this anticipating a bite. The fact that she is doing what you want is a good sign that you are getting thru to her. The reward for this should be a good one as well.

The only thing I woiuld recommend is rather than sat LEAVE IT a second time - I would say NO !!! rather than repeat yourself - unless you think your dog is hard of hearing then a repetition may be in order.

Other than that - it sounds like you have things under control. When the dog starts toi slip get an e-collar - I am working on a training DVD for e-collars so have someone video this and I will give you the DVD when it comes out.

In fact if anyone wants to video their issues with a e-collar and send it on a DV tape I will do the same.

Sounds good, I spoke to a trainer in Calif. who specializes in Aggressive Pits and he recommended the Dogtra 1200NC. In my research I have been told over and over by the Pit Bull community that E collars are NOT recommended for Pits. They don't say why and I'm sure if I ask they will blast me for being what they call a "Pet Bull" owner (which is what I am). Ed have you heard this before from this particular community, I would like to understand the resistance if you know, if not I'll just put my bullet proof vest on and ask just to be dilligent.

Valerie, I own an APBT and I have used an e-collar on him without a problem. With that being said, he is not at all aggressive to either people or animals, and has no dominance issues. I would get another opinion or 2 on the e-collar. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sorry to go off topic a bit, BUTTTTT there is this guy in my neighborhood who thinks it's hilareous to let his Shiapoo chase after my female AmStaff and make her crazy.......well he did it again last night, this time I was able to get her to sit - shaking, no whining just deep concentration on the little dust mop, this idiot knows she is aggressive because we have had words, the shiapoo runs right up to her, my dog is at a sit I am NOT yelling cause I don't want her to get excited, at this point I am ready to grab and cradle my dog....you won't believe this the dog actually is in her face barking and prancing, my dog is looking at her with deep concentration like she is gonna bite the crap out of this little dog.....I say NO to her and she just looks up at me and then starts whiining, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT, I was so thrilled at this point I punted that little SH*T eater right back to Mr. Happy and turned and continued my walk...........Ed your training RULES!!!!!!

I would hesitate to use an E collar; it sounds like you have decent control of your girl despite the shipoo's actions and I would be concerned that using an E collar , at least in this situation, might exacerbate her ill feelings toward the dog.

My dog, Maggie, was/is dog aggressive and we have done a ton of work on the behavior. We started with collar corrections (big ones on a prong that had her pretty cowed and refusing to look at me or another dog, so not little nagging ones that don't work), but her dog aggression increased and her desire to work for me decreased so we switched to desensitization and counter conditioning (which I know some people don't particularly go for, but oh well) - Maggie has made great progress without the correction based methods and is a much happier worker.

My girl and I actually just got back from a dog event (benefit dog walk) where we were surrounded by tons of dogs; only one low growl, and no major reactions, even when multiple dogs got in her face and one even hit her with his tail and then laid down not 6 inches from her and proceeded to whine and bark at his owner!

I give this anecdote not to tell you or anyone else that what they do is wrong or right, but just to give another perspective. I never thought Maggie would get to the place where she is now and if I had continued w/ corrections for aggression I don't think I would've.

Re: shipoo idiocy: Is your girl trained to sit behind you? I do this with Maggie in tense situations and it gives me a chance to deal with the other dog. Some people I know give one warning to the owner "Please control your dog or I will use my pepper spray/citronella" and then follow through - anything to protect their dog and get the point across to the owner that they aren't playing around.

Hope this helps in some form or other.

I thank you for your input, my girl isn't nearly to the place your Maggie is, but because of the incident I know we have made great progress and I can look forward to more. Before this forum advice Lilly would have viscously attacked that dog, and I say this to tell you how out of control she was. When I get in tense situations I sit her to my left side, then I step in front of her so she can look at me and I block the view to the other dog. But my back is then to the other dog, I don't know what she would do if she couldn't look at me, I don't think I have enough control yet.......your thoughts????

Why don't you get some pepper spray or some other deterrent so this mop dog learns it's not a good idea to rush up to your dog. Better yet, try using it on the stupid owner too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> -just kidding <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Too bad we don't have eyes in the back of our heads isn't it? lol

What I did to teach Maggie to stay behind be while I dealt with the loose dog: Worked some with placement at home, but mainly I worked the behavior when I needed it; not ideal, but that's how it happened. To start I put her in a sit and stepped in front of her, speeding up the motion and "urgency" to simulate a real situation. In the real world encounters, I just pulled Maggie behind me with the cue "behind me" and set her up so her head was touching the back of my knees. I think it definately helped that in those instances Maggie was on a head halter so I knew exactly where her nose was and could feel growling even if I wasn't looking at her (interesting note: some guide dog users w/ hearing impairment use head halters on their dogs so that they can tell where the dog is indicating where sounds are coming from, not for the original antipulling purpose, so it must be a pretty effective way to determine head placement).

Hope this makes sense. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> As with anything in training, 'slow is fast' and you can modify the method above to fit your dog better. Good luck!