First off, forgive me if this has been discussed before. I've tried searching with the forum search AND with google and I didn't find anything. If anyone can toss some links my way if this was discussed already, I would love that!

I would like to get a GSD puppy from working lines in the not-so-distant future for protection sports, and I will be ordering "Raising a Working Puppy" soon- maybe that will answer my question. My fiance and I both want the pup, but it'll be mostly mine since I'm the one foaming at the mouth to get into the working dog sports <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I have read around the forum and from Ed that only ONE person should be involved in training/handling the dog, excluding family members. I know if I went with that I'd have a very sad fiance! I would like us to both be involved with working the dog, me primarily, but I definitely want him to be able to interact with the dog after making sure we're both on the same page as to how the interaction will occur. I need to know if that will disrupt the training of the dog or ruin it or make life difficult or if I should be the only handler for the first x weeks/months, etc. I'm planning for the dog to live in the house, if that helps any.

Like I said, if this was discussed and you have links on hand or some better search keywords (everything I tried was a flop), please send them over!

>>I have read around the forum and from Ed that only ONE person should be involved in training/handling the dog, excluding family members.

***Definitely.

>>I need to know if that will disrupt the training of the dog or ruin it or make life difficult or if I should be the only handler for the first x weeks/months, etc.

***YES...to any or all of the above.

As I feared.. now if I am the sole handler for the first.. few weeks, few months (recommended time frame, please) and afterward my fiance interacts with the dog, will that be okay? I'm not looking specifically (but I wouldn't object if it ends up happening) for serious competition or a serious protection dog, but I do want to be able to participate in protection sports with a well bred dog. I definitely don't want to ruin a good dog, either.

I don't know if I was clear when I first posted; I re-read it and to me it sounds like I typed "only one handler besides family members." My fiance and I do live together.

Thanks very much for answering!

I found the groundwork article again and re-read it (I think I've read most, if not all the articles at least a few times over by now) and I now understand I will have to be the only handler for awhile, but just how long should being the sole handler last? Will my fiance ever be able to handle the dog on his own as far as training sessions or even just walks/playtime or must I be the only one to do those things, only allowing him to interact while I am present?

I wish I could follow around a working dog owner for a couple years from obtaining an 8 wk old pup on.. that would answer all my Qs, I'll bet. If my Qs are covered in Ed's videos, I'd like to know exactly which ones so I can be sure to buy them.

i have the raising a working puppy dvd(great vid btw)

and what it says basically is that all time spent out of crate is to be with you if at all posible. (sometimes cannot be helped but if at all possible) now than it does have a section on a working/pet puppy and basically what it says is that special toy(ie toys for training ball on string tugs etc) are never to be used by anybody but you. but family members can pet the dog and give treats etc but that should be all of it.


also let me through this in and if i am mistaken i will be shot down. but at some point your fiance will have to do something with him otherwise pack order issues will insue. what i do is all my commands are in german and than i teach them english 2 wife uses english and i use german big differance in responcive ness to the commands.

also family members do not use training commands hence the english and german commands

David, very interesting how you split the commands like that. I'd like to know more about teaching commands the way you've done it. Do you do the German set first and then the English set?

I'm going to get "Raising a Working Puppy" the second I can. Hopefully I'll have memorized the vids I get by the time I get a pup! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

not to answer for david, but here's my take on a similar result:

it's not that hard to separate the two - for example, platz means platz in every sense of the word as far as formal obedience goes. If i say platz, he knows to down and stay there until told otherwise. In the house, I can say "lay down" - he knows what that means, too. The only difference is if I say "lay down" i'm not going to bust him for moving on his own. If i meant "lay down" cuz we (my girlfriend and I) are eating and i don't want him begging or nearby, then he will get an "uh-uh, lay down" correction. It doesn't take much for the dog to figure out the difference, especially if you use a different tone of voice. "Sitz!" said very sharply in the context of formal obedience is one thing. "sit" - which sounds so similar they are virtually interchangeable - said calmly at the door or whatever is also adhered to.

Personally, I focused on the formal (german in this case) when no one else was around from day 1. I had my girlfriend occasionally (while i supervised) administer the basic commands 1) as a test of his learning, and 2) to reinforce rank, as i wanted her to be able to control him as well.

As he got older and learned more, it was very simple to introduce the "informal" commands. I'd say "lay down" and lure or guide him down. since the down position was not strange (since he had learned platz) he layed down. the situation - in the house, people around, nothing else formal about it - allowed him to make the connection very quickly. same goes with "heel" vs. "fuss" - while out on walks, i'd pull him in close to the left side and say heel. since he already knew "fuss", the position was not uncomfortable, but he very quickly figured out that i wasn't demanding eye contact or formal heeling (mostly because of my lack of "formal" posture, etc), so he learned that heel just meant to get close and stay close, fuss is fuss.

I hope that makes sense. the bottom line is that they are a lot more intelligent than we sometimes give them credit for, and can figure some things out for themselves. My advice is to focus on the formal first, and make it absolute. Then once they know the "x" = "x" or bad things happen, you can let them see "y" also = "x" sometimes, but the world isn't going to end if it doesn't. And that's okay, too.

I've been following this thread since it began, since Diana's initial question is one that I was going to need to know the answer to as well. Lots of good responses, but I am also interested to know the amount of time before my husband should be allowed to interact with our new puppy (which we are getting in the next week or so - he's already 4.5 months old). I was telling him about the fact that since this dog is going to be primarily for me because of the fact that I want him for personal protection, that I need to be the only one to work with him as far as training and walking and feeding ect., but he could still play with the dog. He said "Good, less stuff for me to have to worry about doing," but he was clearly upset a little.

Kristen, just like my man was upset when I told him I may have to be the only one to do anything with the pup for awhile!

Chris, that actually does make lots of sense, thank you for explaining it! At what age did you start the "casual commands?" My problem will be that my fiance is always around. I would like to have him be able to at least call the dog from day one since that is a lifesaving command. Is that workable? Can he use the competition command since it's undesired to have a casual command for "get over here NOW or ELSE!"

my girlfriend has been around since day one. the only difference is that the formal training was (and is) done by me, and just reinforced by her around the house. he listens to her and behaves perfectly whenever she takes him anywhere, but she very rarely uses real commands other than sit and platz. she's never done any formal heeling, etc. although she has given the command a couple times and he will move in to position and set up correct, but you can tell it seems weird for him.

as for the recall, etc., that's also pretty simple. "Here" means get here, now, within reach at least. I taught "he-er" (two syllables, drawn out, more like "he-ya") as a position command - it's only used in the formal obedience and it means here, now, sitting in front looking up at me. Again, my posture is formal when i give this, and he knows the difference.

as for age, after the first couple months of imprinting (primarily the formal stuff with basic house manners mixed in), everything else was taught simultaneously, just in different ways and obviously in different contexts. I used Ed's "Basic Obedience" video as the primer and then moved to the competition stuff from there, but there was plenty of overlap along the way.

again, they're smart - they'll pick up on the differences pretty easily if you take your time and are consistent in your training.

my girlfriend and I have lived together ever since i got him, and like i said, he'll listen and behave and is obedient to her, but the formal stuff is for me and him.

BUT - i also don't press any limits with her, meaning i wouldn't let her take him out somewhere and let him off leash, even with the e-collar. i know my dog and how he's going to act and i know how to handle him in pretty much any situaton. it's not worth finding out where the end to that crossover is.

hope that makes sense.