Hi everybody!

Since this is my first post, I think I should present myself before I ask my question.

It all started with my first Chocolate Lab Othello about 6 months ago. We got him in February 2005 at 9 weeks. Things were great in the beginning but rapidly went down hill. He was overly dominant, did not listen to any of us (me, my wife and my 5 year old son), jumped up on people, try do bite us. He even did what seemed to be an Alpha Roll on my son. Whatever I did, nothing seemed to work. Since I didn’t have enough knowledge this was mostly my fault. Unfortunately, the vet had to put him down at six months because of very severe hip dysplasia.

The breeder had given us a guarantee on the dog (a very low percentage of her dogs have hip dysplasia) but before I would get another dog, I decided to come out of my ignorance and search for answers to my questions. This is when I found this site. Since then, I’ve not been able to go thru a day without reading something on this forum or one of Mr Frawley’s articles. Even ordered a few DVD’s and books.

So, about two weeks ago, we got our new puppy. A Chocolate Lab, call name Yoda. He is now 9 weeks old and is starting to comply to the sit, down, crate, come, no, outside and search (since I’m French, the commands are Assis, Coucher, Dans la cage, Viens, Dehors and Cherche). He’s a very good puppy and very food driven (I think all Labs are).

My question is this : When are we suppose to use the No command for a puppy that age? For sure, I know that we use it when we want him to stop biting our hands or feet, when he does his outside inside or when he takes the leash in his mouth. Besides this, are we suppose to use it whenever he does something that we want him to stop (like jumping up on the baby gate or biting the corner of chair leg) or do we only do something that makes him want to stop (like wiggling a ball on a string)?

I did a search on this forum and in the articles but can’t seem to find the answers to my question…

Thank you for offering us a wonderful medium to get and give valuable information!

P.S.: I'm a French Canadian so excuse me for any errors of syntaxe. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Welcome to the forum Marc! I'm in Fredericton, NB, so I'm used to your accent! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This is a common discussion I have with my puppy students at the start of each new course...

Use ONE command per action (for instance Down means "on your belly" not "don't jump on me, get off the couch" etc, and DON'T say NO to everything!

Nagging is a common BAD practice in dog training.... we teach that a command is given one time, puppy is placed in position and praised (WITHOUT FOOD!!) for being there. Repetition and consistency is the rest of this very successful formula! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As for NO, we teach it that NO means NEVER!

Never get into my garbage, Never get on my furniture (in our house, dogs are not on furniture), Never growl or snap over a posession (we own all toys,food,treats etc. dog is allowed to use them), that sort of thing.

If I NEVER want to invite my dog up for a hug (jump on me) then I will use NO to correct that as well. I do allow my personal dogs to hug, so if they come up uninvited they get told to "get off!" NOT No or Down!


If my dog is digging a hole in the yard, that's a NO, if he's barking in the yard, that's a "quiet" or "stop" or even "shut the hell up!" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I do not say NO for barking, since I want my dog to let me know someone is in the yard.

The last NO is if a dog breaks an obedience command. Since our obedience programs teach the dog to hold the last command given, if the dog breaks that command, that is a NO, never break the last command given. Obviously it's our responsibility as owners to make sure that our commands don't put our dog in harm's way.

The last thing to consider is that your dog is still VERY MUCH a baby, and much of his behaviour at this age is "stage related" and with proper guidance from you, will disappear with maturity. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Good luck with your pup!
Tammy.

Thanks Tammy!

I’ve lived in Moncton (NB) for 5 years and in Woodstock (NB) for a summer. So I am also use to your accent! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So basically, NO means “never do what you were doing”. In that case, I will start to teach Yoda the meaning of STOP.

I know that he will out grow the nipping/chewing. I just needed a way to tell him to stop what he is doing without necessarily giving him a correction (if my understanding is correct, NO is a correction?).

I sometimes correct with Stop, or Enough, or Leave It, if the verbal warning isn't enough! The difference between the above commands and the NO command is that NO means Never do what you're doing, and the rest are just "for now".

For instance, if I'm playing ball with one of my dogs and I've had enough and want to put the ball away, I will say "leave it" while I reach for the ball. If my dog makes a grab for it, I will restrain him by the collar and repeat "leave it". I wouldn't use No because that would mean Never make a grab for the ball.

Hope that clarifies things.

RE: my accent... I'm a B.C. native, I say "ant" for aunt, and the last "supper" was when Christ and his disciples sat down together! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I love the East Coast, but I've only been here 4 years, not long enough to develop their lingo yet! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

A lot of those behaviors can be eliminated without correcting. For instance, applying bitter apple (a deterrant by flavor) on the leash makes it taste bad, so the dog stops mouthing it just because it tastes icky. Or if he really loves his walks, the moment he takes the leash into his mouth you can instantly stand still. He may get even more rambunctious, bouncing and pulling and biting the leash, but you can still stay absolutely still. Eventually he'll settle down, even for a moment, and then you can start walking. Doesn't take long for bright pups to realize that they get nowhere fast when they act like brats! For chewing on you, I've read that a lot of people with nippy pups will actually yelp in "pain," imitating the yelp of a littermate that teaches the pup bite inhibition. That can be expanded on by immediately dropping all contact with the pup for a few minutes following the bite. This teaches the pup that his bite hurt and caused all fun and games and contact with his beloved leader to end. Then you come back in a few minutes like nothing happened. This works on some other animals as well! You can also redirect chewing behavior off your appendages and onto approved chew toys. Above all, make sure you're not making a huge deal of the biting and moving your hands/feet away quickly; the pup may see this as a fun game of chase-and-nip!

Don't correct for pottying in the house unless you catch the pup in the act! A better solution is to prevent this altogether- take the pup outside often, praise exuberantly and excessively when the pup potties outside (in fact, save outside games for praise AFTER the pup does his business), and watch the pup like a hawk when he's indoors. He should either be in the crate or attached to your waist by a short leash. Take the pup out in the morning, after meals, if it's been about a half hour or an hour, after playtime, and limit water for a couple hours before bedtime. If the pup can't stay dry through the night, wake up in the middle of the night to let the pup out until he's older. Searches for housebreaking will yield lots of results.

If you get a lab from a decent breeder they`re going to be mouthy. If you correct for any mouthiness give them something acceptable like a sock with a knot tied in it or whatever you have lying around that is soft enough for the pup to enjoy carrying. A lot of labs just love to have something in their mouth which leads to them grabbing hands, feet, and leashes if nothing else is more interesting. This is just my personal experience from when our lab was a puppy. Your pup might be different.

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For chewing on you, I've read that a lot of people with nippy pups will actually yelp in "pain," imitating the yelp of a littermate that teaches the pup bite inhibition. That can be expanded on by immediately dropping all contact with the pup for a few minutes following the bite. This teaches the pup that his bite hurt and caused all fun and games and contact with his beloved leader to end. Then you come back in a few minutes like nothing happened. This works on some other animals as well! You can also redirect chewing behavior off your appendages and onto approved chew toys. Above all, make sure you're not making a huge deal of the biting and moving your hands/feet away quickly; the pup may see this as a fun game of chase-and-nip!

I've tried this theory on my other Lab. No corrections, only yelping and re-directing. He learned bite inhibition. But he also learned that he could bite (not to hard) if he wanted to. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think that method works if you don't have a child. Since you do not want the dog to EVER bite a hand, leg, etc... Plus, this has the tendancy to frustrate the dog. Frustration builds drive. So he normally comes back for more. But that is my opinion.

Maybe it works with other dogs than the ones that I have had. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have found that the NO command (with a scruff until he understands the command) and re-directing with lots of praise when he complies will work faster and with no ambiguities.

Thanks for the advice! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Marc Denis

A sock with a knot!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I will definitly try this one when I get home because he is a perfect representative of the Lab breed. Plus he seems to have an uncontrollable urge towards my 5 cords of firewood that is on the side of the house! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> "When I get big, I will get one of those!!"

Thanks for the tip! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Marc Denis

This is great. I used this last night with our new Lab Katy. When we settled down for our evening after a hard day of boot camp for her.(LOL) She started to get playful. I told my 7 year old about this tactic so I yelped in pain and she was on me like I had just been shot. She was so worried about me. Now this morning ( obviously shes a pup) she started with the nipping and I yelped again. So she hasnt nipped in a while. What I am wondering is. If I throw the no command in there for never do that. Does that me she wont attact an intruder when she gets older.?

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If I throw the no command in there for never do that. Does that me she wont attact an intruder when she gets older.?

I think that most Labs will mostly bark at strangers. This is why you don't see much Labs doing Personal Protection or Schutzhund. Since I don't have any experience in that field, my opinion is based on what I've seen and read.

Maybe someone with more experience could answer that one for us...