Did one of these highly qualified trainers advise you to take four, two hundred pound dogs into public and have them interact with people and other dogs all at once?

One of the best pieces of advice I was ever given, and I keep it in the back of my mind with everything I'm ever training, is "What are you going to do if that doesnt work?" Whats your plan Andrew? Suddenly, one of those Bulldogs isnt so friendly or submissive and theres a fight. What now Andrew?

People get involved, 2 or 3 of your dogs and mixed in, now what? And don't try to say that could never happen Andrew. Something can always happen with dogs no matter how much attention you're paying to how they're wagging their tails. What are you going to do?

Too many giant breed dogs for you to safely handle the way you are, at one time. Period.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Please link to pics. I've been changing your embedded photos to links for you.

Embedded photos are allowed in the intro/bio and in tributes to dogs who have died, per the rules in those sections. Elsewhere, we use a link. Thank you.



As far as addressing your latest completely-don't-get-it reply, I guess CJ has wrapped it up with "Andrew, no one is saying that you shouldn't expose your dogs to everything possible. What's in question is the stage they're at, the experiments you're conducting, and your control, should something go horribly wrong in these high risk situations."

Add to that your lack of understanding of your own and others' dogs reactions and body language, and yes: you have been lucky.

If very experienced people are indeed helping you, then you're not hearing them, either. No one with a high level of experience and responsibility is telling you to put so many your dogs together in such uncontrolled public situations (which I consider to be arrogant experiments).


All I can do is hope you will stop and think. There's a reason for these posts to you.

Being honest when one of my dog training friends saw the video had many of the same cautionary comments relating to the video of the bordeux and says only for the fact the bordeux was so submisive meant that the situation was incident free however he did add a positive to the video in that despite the intensity of the situation I did bring the situation back under control without any yelling or physical contact with the dogs whilst still filming at the same time and gained the focus of all 4 of my dogs even when the bordeux entered thier house before them and then getting them to follow me calmly behind me without them trying to rush past to reingage.So yes lesson learnt and more consideration required by me in the future.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

If very experienced people are indeed helping you, then you're not hearing them, either. No one with a high level of experience and responsibility is telling you to put so many your dogs together in such uncontrolled public situations (which I consider to be arrogant experiments).


All I can do is hope you will stop and think. There's a reason for these posts to you.

I understand what you are saying about multiple dogs in unconrolled public situations but you must be aware that is quite normal for people that show dogs ,large and small,take multiple dogs to large dog shows where there are masses of people and dogs all in a confined space and unfortunately ,which is one of the thing that causes me great sadness,that alot of show dogs are exactly that and sadly dont have the same sort of life many of our dogs have being exposed to regular exercise and training particularly in my breed as I have mentioned in a previous post,yet they continue to travel up and down the country taking multiple dogs at one time to various shows and as you can see from some of the pictures I have posted children disabled people are common at these events.One of the reasons tho not the only one, I dont show is because I have seen how unstable some of the dogs are having even seen on more than ona occaision dogs being thrown out the ring for attacking the judge or other dogs in the ring.You are quite right life has an unpredictable side in relation to dogs but I do go the extreme lengths to "condition" the dogs for the what ifs but I can only be responsible for my own dogs .I recall one time while standing on the stand with 3 of my dogs an elderly woman just walked onto the stand with a small dog without even asking if it was ok to do so,my dogs all behaved she then walked off my stand and went onto the next stand where the English mastiffs were who sadly didnt behave quite so well but the small dog and the elderly lady were unharmed.What I didn't realise till later on was that the woman was one of several kennel club representatives assessing the way each breed stand was being run.Later that day I had another gentleman from the kennell club come to me on the stand and he complimented me and especially the dogs on their behaviour.I am sure you find it hard to believe that a high ranking Kennel Club representative (some one you would expect to have vast knowledge of all dog matters)to be highly complimentary to someone with 3 large dogs in this setting but I assure you that this is absolutely true .

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/img003.jpg

ok andrew . . . we get it . . . you got great dogs and you like to show them off .

/end thread

 Quote: steve strom

One of the best pieces of advice I was ever given, and I keep it in the back of my mind with everything I'm ever training, is "What are you going to do if that doesnt work?" Whats your plan Andrew? Suddenly, one of those Bulldogs isnt so friendly or submissive and theres a fight. What now Andrew?

People get involved, 2 or 3 of your dogs and mixed in, now what? And don't try to say that could never happen Andrew. Something can always happen with dogs no matter how much attention you're paying to how they're wagging their tails. What are you going to do?

Too many giant breed dogs for you to safely handle the way you are, at one time. Period.

Mobile dog park .

 Quote: steve strom

Mobile dog park .

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Moowbyyyyel,,,,,, doggiepark

 Quote: ian bunbury

ok andrew . . . we get it . . . you got great dogs and you like to show them off .

/end thread

Come on Ian, don't be like that, Andrew has taken some pertinent but strong criticism, and has taken some of it on board and admitted some of the posts have a real point.

I have worked at Crufts and there are some nightmare dogs there who are only wheeled out to 'walk nicely' and spend the rest of their miserable lives in kennels, just in case they get a scratch or mess their ridiculously long coats off to maintain 'breed standard' in the ring, and some dogs there are clearly never exposed to the big world and all the people and scary noises in it, the UK Kennel Club has many, MANY faults, and I dislike a lot of their decisions in recent years, but compliments from Judges who aren't affiliated with your own breed are unheard of, so I would have been chuffed with that too.

I agree with the unpredictability of the scenario with such large dogs, mostly because of interference from other dogs/people thrown in the mix, and Andrew acknowledges that also, personally I consider it a win if I get home without being accosted by some grinning fool with their toddler and furiously yapping, ill mannered Jack or Bichon, but when I do see well mannered and calm multiple dogs out with their owners, I give them the courtesy of a nod, and a smile and leave them the hell alone, the idiot walking multiple dogs on fully extended flexi leads, weaving around on the pavement, I give them the Paddington Bear displeased look, and make a mental note to keep well out of their way.

Constructive criticism is one thing, dismissing some one for making a point, and trying to make that point in the civil way Andrew has done, surely deserves a modicum of civility in return??

He IS proud of his dogs, as we all are of our own

Tracey, I totally agree with most of what you've said, however, diverting to the grinning fools with toddlers and unruly pups isn't helping much either.

I think those people are pretty much universal. There have been many threads on here discussing these exact same folks we encounter daily, here in North America.

There are also many different segments of the dog community, people with differing opinions of what they want or feel they should do with their dogs. Your dog show scenario is also very reflective of what goes on here. A life of crates and vehicles and groomers, with very little outlet to be the actual dog that it's being prized and winning ribbons for.

Not a life I would choose for a dog under any circumstances. Nor would I support puppy mills or dog fighting or back yard breeding or any other number of things that go on out there.

To subscribe to the accolades of a person, whose philosophy he's clearly stated he does not respect, is no different than a puppy mill owner telling me my dog has great breeding lines or a dog fighter telling me that my dog could stand his own in the ring.

Empty words coming from a grinning fool who, as you've so eloquently put it, is doing nothing more than condoning the creation of these "nightmare dogs who are only wheeled out to..." Choose your poison.

He does not support this show process but, in many ways, appears to be deeply involved in it, to the point he's actually "proud" of what one of these judges, who knows little about his breed, has to say.

And while I agree that giving back a 3 year old child's ability to love dogs again and brightening a disabled person's day is truly noteworthy, how many unsung heroes do we have out there doing this exact same thing. Dog's quietly change people's lives every day.

Unfortunately, doing it in the public view in your Cruff's Dog Show is only giving that process more noteworthy exposure. Something he doesn’t condone right?

I don't know, it's a bit confusing and seems like a lot of diversion that's being inappropriately placed into the discussion when he doesn't seem to have answers or an inability or unwillingness to comment on the observations that have been noted.

And I totally agree, it's tough to have faults pointed out, especially when you thought you were doing such a good job to begin with. I think we've all been there.

Change is tough and it often takes a 360 in your thought process to put it into action. It also takes a strong person to stick something like this out but in this case, I would have to agree with Ian. I also question the intentions of that perseverance.

The genuinely caring folks that post to this site have the patience and offer the expertise and guidance to allow those transformations to happen. But when heads keeping banging up against a wall and there's no sign of making a dent, just more concrete getting poured, yeah it's time to start painting that wall with graffiti.

OMG, look what you made me type Tracey.

Time to go meet a victim for Vince's handshake command. No worries folks, he’s muzzled where necessary.