Nancy,Jenn,Shelley, and Peggy:

Thank you for the links. They are bookmarked to be read this weekend (holy cow, do I have a lot to learn!). Yes, I just heard about Ester-C and Dr. Wendell Belfield's study (thanks to Jenni)so that will be another supplement to add to the mix. I was also advised that Adequan can really help HD...before the crippling arthritis sets in. Adequan is expensive but so is surgery and/or years on Rimadyl or Deramaxx and I'd like to avoid the NSAID route if at all possible.

His x-rays didn't show the worst hips in the world and I was told that we definitely could see improvement at 1 year IF we do the right things now. Like keeping him lean, proper exercise to build up his muscles, avoiding jarring movements etc. The fact is, I missed some of the more subtle signs. He is stiff when he comes out of his crate, he leans off the right hip when he sits, he sashays his back end ever so slightly when he walks (and I thought that was cute), and his back feet are smaller, back legs thinner, and his paws seem to rest down on the floor differently than his forepaws. It's been 2 days since he first started limping and he's still somewhat wobbly (as is his mom ).

Acupuncture is one of the coolest things I've seen in quite awhile and I'm not sure I would have believed it if I hadn't seen the results with my own eyes. I've heard that it can help everything from HD to kidney disease to actually reducing tumors. Our Doc is really focused right now only on dogs and cats with motor difficulties so I can't speak to the other claims. Typically, a blood workup and x-rays are done prior to the 1st acupuncture session. Initially, an animal has acupuncture 1x/week for 4-6 weeks then, depending on the problem and the success of the therapy, it will be scaled back to "as needed". It's different for every animal and the reults can be dramatic or very subtle. She uses a combination of "dry" and "electric" acupuncture depending on the problem and at what point the patient is in therapy. 6 months ago my boss's 14 year old Lab couldn't walk 5 feet without completely losing control of his back end and dragging it. We knew time was up for Kody. Enter Dr. Loughlin, newly certified acupuncturist, and Kody became her first patient. She worked on him weekly for over month and today, 6 months later, Kody is still with us...walking on his back legs (wobbly, but walking)...and enjoying a very mellow life. I highly recommend giving acupuncture a try.

I am going to agree, too, with the "shorter, happier life" philosophy. I want my pup to be a pup and enjoy his life. He'll get to chase his ball...just not as much as he'd like.

Good luck!

Cyra will be 4 years old in April and was diagnosed last January. Up to that point she was doing Wilderness SAR and was actually preparing for her certification test. We noticed a limp after a day of water training where she fell off the boat and the air temp was 40F. Cold and wet - we toweled her off but she still was working wet in the cold air.

I pulled her off of wilderness because (1) the stress on joints of running through uneven surfaces in the woods where there are holes to step in, rocks to step on, and dead trees to jump over. (2) She does not show pain, but who knows what she is actually feeling - I was concerned that she might "miss" because she was hurting and that was enough to convince me. She does do water recovery work off of a boat and this has caused her no problem. If she gets wet and it is cold, I take extra care - actually the Dermaxx I have given her have been proactive and not because she was in apparent pain.

The Acti-Flex 4000 was shown to me by a person at a tack store. It is a horse product but I have a horsey friend who goes on and on about hyaluronic acid. I have had a few tell me they prefer the liquid supplements as well - she certainly has more bowel tolerance for it than the powder. The ingredients in one ounce are

Chondroitin sulfate - 4000 mg
Glucosamine Sulfate - 6000 mg
Ascorbic Acid - 1000 mg
Hyaluranic Acid - 125 mg
MSM - 2000 mg
Bioperine - 100 mg
Perna Canaliculus - 1000 mg
Yucca - 150 mg
Superoxide Dismutase (amt not listed)

She gets 6 mL / day so multiply the above by 0.2 for doses

I don't give any other supplements except a little oil + vitamin E

The orthopedic vet was very skeptical about the Ester C study. He said it was one study not done in a double blind fashion and does not know if it has been replicated. In any event he saw no problem giving it to adults but was concerned about high doses in growing puppies in regards to the bone metabolism.

The excercises you would really need to be shown with your dog. Basically uphill walking, a lot of ball play (which the PT did not like but realized that she is that kind of dog), games in water when it is warm, water treadmill when it is cold, range of motion stretches, and one where we push against the good hip to get her to put more weight on the bad hip.

The ortho vet was very much encouraging. Her hips are so bad the sockets are lipped and the femoral heads deformed. Strangely they fit pretty well in the socket. His take was that he RARELY has to euthanize a dog with bad hips but that the real problem with GSDs in his opinion was back problems. DM and spondylosis.

FWIW, we have hardwood floors and I have not had a problem with slipping. I have a no run policy in the house.

Wow, I'm with Shelley Fritke on this one. You don't want a dog under a year to be jumping, or doing too much excercize anyway! I would do as much swimming & running in chest deep water as possible. The supplements are a good idea too. Have him reevaluated at 8 to 10 months. Of course keep this dog super lean.

Because fish oil is such a great anti-inflammatory agent, I'd be sure I was using it with a dog who has a strong OA factor.

I would use about a gram of fish oil for every ten pounds of dog weight. I think even less than that is better than none, but I would try to go with that amount in such a case of extremely likely OA changes in the future.

I'd work up to it, starting with about 1/4 tsp. and working up to the 1-gram-per-10-pounds amount.

There is no downside that I know of to fish oil (with the possible exception of dogs on blood-thinning drugs), as long as you use distilled oil from wild fish to leave behind heavy metals and to avoid toxins from farmed fish, and include Vitamin E (used up in the processing of oil supplements). All JMO.

For a 70-pound dog, for example, I'd use 7 grams, which is almost 1.5 teaspoons.

I buy a pharmaceutical grade with no taste because I share the same fish oil I give my dogs and I don't like fishy after-taste, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to get that grade. I do think it's important, though, to get distilled oil, and also (MHO) not to choose fish LIVER oil, which has a couple of dowsides used in the amounts I believe (and have read) are most beneficial. http://www.leerburg.com/47.htm

I am giving Buddy one vitamin E (400 I.U.) daily and alternating one Fish oil cap (Anchovy, Mackeral, Sardine) 1000mg one day then one "cold water" Salmon oil cap 1000 mg the next. I realize that I am missing the omega 6 and with Buddy having Flea Allergis also, I went ahead and ordered the Salmon Oil from Leerburg.

Initially from the time Buddy was 8 wks old until about 5 months he had broken out with a rash all over his back and stomach at least 4 different times, but since I put him on a grain free food and have been giving him these supplements he hasn't had another break out.

I am kinda wondering about his training now, I have stayed with his marker training a long time because I knew he was miserable with the itching. I can say with complete confidence that Buddy understands the basic commands. We were ready to start moving into the the distraction/correct phase, but when he started limping I decided to hold off a while until he felt better. I can't stop completely - I'd end up with a monster, but are there other considerations I should keep in mind as I move forward with his training?

Thanks,
Peggy

I forgot to add that I have him on the syn-flex also, the vet had offered another supplement to use but when I told her I had already started the syn-flex she felt that was pretty good also. (I don't know the name of the other supplement, I was in such a state I just told her I'd stick with the syn-flex for now and look at the other another time).

Peggy

Shelley J.A. Fritzke made a good point about how sure the vets were when they looked at the x-rays, with your dog such a young age.

And the supplement Nancy recommended (the horse one) has great ingredients and Ascorbic Acid - 1000 mg is included. That is Vitamin C. I've heard that the Esther C is just a form more readily processed by our dogs, but EITHER is recommended by many of these supplements for horses/dogs with joint problems.

And though I wouldn't be doing any extreme sports with your dog, any exercise that is voluntary by your dog should be showing you that they can tolerate it. And if you limit it too much you'll end up with an under developed puppy that has the bones forced to take all the weight because of the lack of development in the muscles and tendons. I PERSONALLY feel many breeders got on board with the 'don't exercise your puppy the first year' so that if you did and then the GENETIC hip problems cropped up, the breeders could then 'blame' the puppy owner (rather than their breeding).

Did you read any of the THREE sites I posted? Two about supplements and one about exercise and puppies (and the fact many of us UNDER exercise and cause hip problems?).

I had a friend who's vet diagnosed her limping pup (using x-rays also) as hip dysplasia but when she then went to a specialist it turned out to merely be pano (Panosteitis).

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/9911/pano.htm
http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/depano.html

 Quote: peggybayer

I am giving Buddy one vitamin E (400 I.U.) daily and alternating one Fish oil cap (Anchovy, Mackeral, Sardine) 1000mg one day then one "cold water" Salmon oil cap 1000 mg the next. I realize that I am missing the omega 6 and with Buddy having Flea Allergis also, I went ahead and ordered the Salmon Oil from Leerburg. ....

Omega 6 is plentiful in meat, chicken, etc. It's unlikely for a dog on fresh food to be short on Omega 6. However, safflower is a good source of 6, and so is hemp oil.

It's Omega 3 EFAs that are in shortest supply in most diets (human and canine).

1 gram (1000 mg) of fish oil is good, and it's certainly more than most dogs (or humans) get, but I'd go for more. The Leerburg one you ordered is a liquid, so you can easily give more.

I'd go with 1000 mg (one gram) for each ten pounds of dog weight, rather than just 1000 mg. period, with a dog who is likely to show OA changes. JMO!

 Quote: peggybayer

..... I am kinda wondering about his training now, I have stayed with his marker training a long time because I knew he was miserable with the itching. I can say with complete confidence that Buddy understands the basic commands. We were ready to start moving into the the distraction/correct phase, but when he started limping I decided to hold off a while until he felt better. I can't stop completely - I'd end up with a monster, but are there other considerations I should keep in mind as I move forward with his training?

Thanks,
Peggy

I agree with Jenn that smooth exercise is good. Range-of-motion, without jumping or jarring.

Also, Basic Ob training should be fine. What part were you thinking might be harmful to his joints?

I think this quote is sensible and, IMO, probably the best kind of advice. It's what most of the vet med sites and books say:

QUOTE:

Exercise

Exercise is the next important step. Exercise that provides for good range of motion and muscle building and limits wear and tear on the joints is the best. Leash walking, swimming, walking on treadmills, slow jogging, and going up and down stairs are excellent low-impact exercises. An exercise program should be individualized for each dog based on the severity of the osteoarthritis, weight, and condition of the dog. In general, too little exercise can be more detrimental than too much, however the wrong type of exercise can cause harm. While watching a dog play Frisbee is very enjoyable and fun for the dog, it is very hard on a dog's joints. Remember, it is important to exercise daily; only exercising on weekends, for instance, may cause more harm than good if the animal is sore for the rest of the week and reluctant to move at all. Warming the muscles prior to exercise and following exercise with a "warm-down" period are beneficial. Consult with your veterinarian regarding an exercise program appropriate for your dog. END QUOTE from http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1569&articleid=444