some great points in this thread (i wasn't home all day), but i'll try to answer them all in one post to keep the post count low.
You mean they can SOUND like a real gun.
i guess it sounds like a real gun if you're used to using supressors. mine's a quite expensive low-pressure operating one that makes barely any more noise than a short gas discharge and a faint click of a metal striker hitting a valve pin. having the velocity backed off also helps the discharge off, but i'd be willing to guarantee even if i never painted my dog and just acclimatised her to the paintball gun discharge, that she would probably shit her pants if i fired a rifle or pistol near her without any warning (other strange noises are usually met by a jump then a wander over to investigate, eg car horn for the first time).
How about selling the paintball gun and putting the money towards an e-collar ;-)
would love to, but unfortunately paintguns depreciate about as quick as computers do - if i ebayed it i might have 1/5th the price of an e-collar, despite the fact that this marker has about $1k of parts in it.
I know that you mentioned you only aim at the dog's hindquaters but what if the dog panics and turns around or what if you hit the "bullseye" of what you are aiming toward and break skin? You could cause an infection from the paint alone in an open wound!
i've backed the velocity pretty far off. in fact with the cold weather this morning, i'd be willing to bet it was under what i chronoed it at. i wash the paint off (these dogs love the taste of it, and will lick it up if i left it there) and checked the sites for any wounds or welts, and so far nothing. as for infection, i'm not sure if that's possible or not even if there was an open wound resulting from it - the paint isn't "paint" any more (not for about three decades), it's a water soluble material that you can even eat... i wouldn't, but they have "paintball eating competitions" at many of the events. not to sound overly confident or arrogant, but i can hit a soda bottle with some proficiency, and i only take shots i know i can make. i'm not about to injure my dog over something like not coming when called.
I hope that you are not in public doing this, couldn't you be arrested? I know that an e-collar is an expensive piece of gear but sometimes sacrifices have to be made. I didn't really have the cash for mine when I got it but I felt that it was a required piece so I found a way. I don't mean to rant or target you (no pun intended) but have you really thought this through?
thought it through? i'd been toying with the idea for ages, but wrote it off, until i saw another post on this very board about someone using a slingshot to cure digging. go figure. as for doing it in public, well, i would probably get a stern talking to if i discharged the paintgun at the park or in the main street - but this is just in my backyard. we have discharged them before in the backyard many a time, the police roll by and don't care. from my understanding, if someone finds paint in their backyard they would probably complain, but the neighbours don't seem to be bothered by it - we keep the paint inside our yard, and are sensible with it (if you don't view this current subject as sensible, except it and everything else we do with them would be sensible).
I think you can get your dog taken away for cruelty if anyone sees you doing this. Sell the paintball gun and get a real training tool. Paintballs bruise through sweatshirts. I'm sure your dog was not feeling to great after that.
this was partially answered above, but i've a few things to add. first, paintguns were orinally used to mark cattle and trees, before some genius got the idea of shooting them at each other. i realise a cow's skin is tougher than a dog's, but i also backed the velocity way off. as i stated above, it didn't even leave any welts on the dog's skin, much less drawing blood or anything crazy like that. at a rough guess i'd say these balls are hitting with about the force you would get from a firm smack on the butt with a leather dog leash. i'm not talking a proper spanking, either, i'm just talking a firm whack.
unfortunately, she went into avoidance (my brother in law used to hit her way too much)
Three words: What... the.... hell.
i'm not entirely sure of the reason behind your reaction here. i've spoken to the BIL about his "training methods" and explained to him why my dog behaves and his dog doesn't. it's not like
i flogged the dog, or stood idly by while he did. furthermore, with the messed up temperament this dog's gotten from her prior "training", what else would you expect to happen? i'd be willing to bet even the tiniest nick with a remote collar and she would go into avoidance as well - the poor thing does it sometimes when i ask her to come! i currently (and please by all means correct me if this is wrong)
never correct the dog when it's in avoidance, i keep insisting with a kind tone (as opposed to BIL's continued yelling for her) and she eventually gets her butt up and comes. then i reward with praise and anything else that might be handy.
I think you need to use the paintball gun on yourself (and your BIL) and reexamine how you approach training. Do you have any of Ed's videos? You must train your dog to respond to the commands under distraction.
been there, done that. these aren't toys - i actually played the sport a lot prior to moving. as for re-examining training, i'm all ears - it's one of the reasons i'm here. as i have said before, i will be buying at least a few of ed's videos and an e-collar when i start working. i can't work right now, so that is out of the question. it's not a case of "saving up", there is no money to save. assuming i even need to (see note at end of this post) use all the paint/air (whicever goes first) that i have, when it is gone there is no more. i am hoping to rectify this situation soon, and be working within a month or two, and then i will use whatever techniques ed's videos recommend, along with the right equipment. until then, it's what i have handy or what i can get for free (including information, of which i am very gracious to ed and everyone else here that offers up their's for free).
as for the other points which basically mention fear as a chief motivator, it really doesn't seem like that to me. if my video camera still worked, i'd post a video. i've painted one dog once, the other dog four times. it's not like being shot with an air-rifle, or anything like that. it's like a mild pop on the butt with a leash handle, the dog's don't cower in fear at the thought/sound of it. all this morning, they were outside and they paid no attention to it at all, having a great time. i think of it as a correction i can administer from a distance (same as an e-collar), and it's my understanding you would correct if you were certain your dog understood you but chose not to obey - is this not correct?
this was posted right before i posted, so i'll answer it here too:
AVOIDNECE AND CORECTIONS SHOULD SHAPE ABEHEVIOR NOT CREAT IT!!!
i freely admit i have a lot to learn, but i honestly don't understand how i am creating it not shaping it? i should mention that both dogs had already worked on "come" with long lines before, they will come, more often than not they'll do it fine without any distraction (including in the back yard) in the picture. i was just trying to refine the trained commands similar to the method one would use with an e-collar. as for avoidance, again i have a lot to learn, but i see no reason to voluntarily put my dog into avoidance for any reason - but then again they're pets, not workers - perhaps working dogs have a need for it?
i think on the whole this has been great, especially for destiny. all this morning i did nothing more than carry the paintgun in case a squirrel rared it's ugly head again and the temptation was too much, but even under distraction she minds exceptionally well, and more often than not it's with a wagging tail (which is way more positive than with the BIL's approach of yelling and generally being scary). i'll carry it anyway just in case, but i can't see using it too often now.
Re: the poor man's remote collar
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