Jay,

Ditto the above suggestions, and . . .

I’m just a few weeks ahead of you. Have a 3 yr old GSD that’s been on raw since we got her about 18 mos ago. She began an increased amount of scratching/chewing a few mos. ago and I’ve been trying a number of things to control it. I went through this whole routine with my previous GSD without ever totally eliminating the problem.

Once again, I believe it’s an inhalant/environmental thing, but I want to rule out food because I know exactly what she’s eaten for the last 18 mos. Her previous raw diet had been primarily chicken, some fish, veggie glop, eggs, yogurt, cottage cheese, fish oil caps (or salmon oil), 400 IU E caps, etc. I stopped that food and switched to Bravo ground lamb (with a few veggies) and continued the supplementation. In 3 weeks, I’ve seen absolutely no change. If fact it seems to be slightly worse. I’m going to stick with it a little while longer, but doubt I’ll make it 8 weeks.

I’ve previously tried Benadryl and saw no improvement . I was reluctantly talked out of Hydroxyzine by the my vet who told me Benadryl was the strongest antihistamine. After reading more posts here by Connie and others, I’m going to try Hydroxyzine as it’s supposed to work well in combination with Omega-3/Omega-6. I had used it in the past with the other dog.

I’m a reluctant “veteran” with prednisone! Bottom line is it works. I know all the negatives and wouldn’t use or suggest it as a long term solution. But if you can find a minimal working dose, it works for those occasional days with the bad episodes of scratching and chewing. I’m now giving my 65# female a 3 to 5mg dose as needed. That’s a relatively light dose, but, unfortunately, lately it seems to be a daily thing. I hope to end it soon with the right combination of diet change and antihistamines.

BTW, I can’t do conversions without using an on-line site - http://www.onlineconversions.com - and even then wouldn’t swear I have the right numbers. The Grizzly Salmon oil bottle recommends 3 pumps for a 70# dog which would be 10.5 cc’s which I convert to a little over 2 teaspoons.

Keep us posted on your results.

Mike

 Quote: Mike Armstrong

Jay,

Ditto the above suggestions, and . . .

I’m just a few weeks ahead of you. Have a 3 yr old GSD that’s been on raw since we got her about 18 mos ago. She began an increased amount of scratching/chewing a few mos. ago and I’ve been trying a number of things to control it. I went through this whole routine with my previous GSD without ever totally eliminating the problem.

Once again, I believe it’s an inhalant/environmental thing, but I want to rule out food because I know exactly what she’s eaten for the last 18 mos. Her previous raw diet had been primarily chicken, some fish, veggie glop, eggs, yogurt, cottage cheese, fish oil caps (or salmon oil), 400 IU E caps, etc. I stopped that food and switched to Bravo ground lamb (with a few veggies) and continued the supplementation. In 3 weeks, I’ve seen absolutely no change. If fact it seems to be slightly worse. I’m going to stick with it a little while longer, but doubt I’ll make it 8 weeks.

I’ve previously tried Benadryl and saw no improvement . I was reluctantly talked out of Hydroxyzine by the my vet who told me Benadryl was the strongest antihistamine. After reading more posts here by Connie and others, I’m going to try Hydroxyzine as it’s supposed to work well in combination with Omega-3/Omega-6. I had used it in the past with the other dog.

I’m a reluctant “veteran” with prednisone! Bottom line is it works. I know all the negatives and wouldn’t use or suggest it as a long term solution. But if you can find a minimal working dose, it works for those occasional days with the bad episodes of scratching and chewing. I’m now giving my 65# female a 3 to 5mg dose as needed. That’s a relatively light dose, but, unfortunately, lately it seems to be a daily thing. I hope to end it soon with the right combination of diet change and antihistamines.

BTW, I can’t do conversions without using an on-line site - http://www.onlineconversions.com - and even then wouldn’t swear I have the right numbers. The Grizzly Salmon oil bottle recommends 3 pumps for a 70# dog which would be 10.5 cc’s which I convert to a little over 2 teaspoons.

Keep us posted on your results.

Mike

I'd never argue with an additional half-teaspoon of fish oil. The one gram per ten pounds is a handy number I use for a minimum for a dog with inflammation challenges.

Mike has had the same experience with canine allergies I have had and has pointed me toward some good info sources.

He's 100% correct about keeping Pred on an as-needed basis; in fact, more than one authoritative source recommends every other day if at all possible (and I know that sometimes it's not possible). Steroids and quality of life -- a constant balancing act. When a dog's sleep is ruined by itching and he's scratching himself raw and crying while he scratches -- well, you do what you have to do and work on every other tool at the same time.

You probably know that food allergies are almost always to a protein (including protein grains), so, like Mike, I don't worry much about non-starchy produce when I'm doing an elimination diet.

Thanks Again,
Right now Max has been getting the Grizzly Salmon Oil and at 80 lbs he gets 4 to 5 pumps with his breakfest. At this time he is getting none though as we are giving him only lamb and nothing else. Once we can get this settled down a bit then he will get the salmon oil re-introduced back into his food. For now though nothing but the lamb for the short run. If after a few weeks nothing seems to have changed then we will have to assume that this is not food related. In the mean time we are giving him nothing but the lamb, that way we know that we know that he is getting something he has never had and things if it is food related it will settle down.
Jay

 Quote: Jay Biles

Thanks Again,
Right now Max has been getting the Grizzly Salmon Oil and at 80 lbs he gets 4 to 5 pumps with his breakfest. At this time he is getting none though as we are giving him only lamb and nothing else. Once we can get this settled down a bit then he will get the salmon oil re-introduced back into his food. For now though nothing but the lamb for the short run. If after a few weeks nothing seems to have changed then we will have to assume that this is not food related. In the mean time we are giving him nothing but the lamb, that way we know that we know that he is getting something he has never had and things if it is food related it will settle down.
Jay

You absolutely have the right idea about what an elimination diet is.

Because distilled salmon oil is not a protein and because I've never heard or read of any allergies to any fats (and I just double-checked in Merck), I'd give the fish oil. JMO, because I think of it as such a potent anti-inflammation agent and because it's inflammation that's the biggest component of the dermatitis.

Jay,

I strongly second continuing the salmon oil as Connie suggests. I had been giving mine fish oil caps for about a year 'til one day, she decided should wouldn't take the caps anymore. It took me about a month to get her on the Grizzly, which she initially rejected flat out. In the meantime, I tried other sources - different caps, flavored oil, etc. - with no success. I think by the time I got her back to a normal daily dose, her "oil reserves" were depleted and it seemed to take a while for her to normalize.

So my unscientific SWAG is that there'll be a period where the residual Omega3/6 levels will gradually fall and then it'll take a while (weeks?) for it to build back up. In the meantime, those changes may confuse your interpretation of what's going on with diet changes.

JMO.

Mike

Jay, I did the elimination diet. I gave my dog rabbit, chicken and venison to start. Same w/treats. After about 4 weeks, I gave him a beef treat and he was instantly itchy - within the same day. That was when I knew because the elimination diet entirely eliminated his itchiness. So for me, it probably more like 2 to 3 weeks of only elimination diet that brought relief to him. Now I've been told my dog has a mild case of allergies. But he is allergic to something else and I haven't figured it out yet. It might be eggs, not sure yet. Still working on it.

He got a "bath" every day to every other day for a period of about 1 month but it was only his paws that were getting washed and it was a shampoo for yeast. It did wonders to settle help settle the itchiness. The first shampoo was good but then eventually he needed a different one (don't know why) so he started on Sulf Oxydex and switched him eventually to Malaseb. Both did the job but Malaseb was better in the end for him. I haven't had to use the shampoo for probably 2 months now.

He is on allergy pills everyday and when his feet act up, he gets complete relief on 5 mg. of Prednisone. I try to keep from giving him the Pred. He's 80 lbs. and I know that's a low dose but I still try to keep him from using them.

Good luck Jay. Their having allergies is very difficult. Exasperating in trying to determine just what it is they are allergic to .

 Quote: Judy Troiano

Jay, I did the elimination diet. . .
He is on allergy pills everyday and when his feet act up, he gets complete relief on 5 mg. of Prednisone.

So, Judy, what allergy pills are working for you?

Mike

Judy,
Becarefull with doses of corticosteroid,it is a immunosuppressive,which means they suppress the body's immune systems.
Dogs are more prone to infections,including skin infections,which are seen in allergy patient.
I took my long coat shepherd (the one that lives at parents house)off all meds, we did the diet change every allergy test known to man and he was taking lots of meds,corticosteroid,hyposensetization,prednislone,methylprednisolne, hydrocortisone, ect...(not all together by the way) nothing worked, yes it made him more comfortable but no cure in sight!
So I took him off all meds 10 months ago and he still itches but nothing like he did before, he gets a bath with a special conditioner once a week and that is it, he looks to me so much better and healthier.When we quit his med cold turkey , he was itching pretty bad but I was determand that I wanted him off meds and give his body a chance to recover and perhaps produce it's own chemicals to fight the itch.I saw that the meds were making him more vulnerable to the allergies.I think a little of it is good but not for a life time.Prednisone is not good long term, yes great stuff but for a short time. Just a caring thought

Sorry I had to add this: remember that your dog absorbs a lot allergens through his skin,when you remove these allergens, you decrease the exposure to the trigger that causes the dog to itch.
even dogs on high dosesof steroids need frequent bathing and conditioning to remove the things from their bodies that cause itching.

Mike, my dog takes Hydroxyzine 50 mg.

Angelique, no worries, I know you're just looking out for my Gunnar . Yes, the vet was very hesitant to prescribe Pred. and told me the good, the bad and the ugly regarding it. Eventually, back then at least, we decided to try it. It stopped his itchiness within 20 minutes of the pill. But that was back when we didn't know if it was environmental, food, what it was. Now I know it's beef but there is a second something and I can't identify it. There's no rhyme or reason to when he itches. And when he does, it's always his front right paw that starts up. So he'll go days without a single nibble on his paw and then all of a sudden he starts paying attention to it. Once in a while it will also include a back paw. It's mild enough that I'm usually able to refocus his attention - "let's go play" or something but when that doesn't work and the allergy pill doesn't do enough, I give him the Pred. I even try giving him 2.5 mg of Pred. and watch to see if it's enough but so far, he's needed the full 5 mg.

So, on average he gets 1 Prednisone tab (5 mg) once a week. I know the average based on the prescriptions administered and did the math. So, yes I worry but I'm not panicked over it. I am struggling w/what is the second thing that is causing a minor problem for him. The beef was a flagrant, glaring, itch for him. This second allergy, whatever it is, is mild but really difficult to pinpoint .