Also since I began going to the park I have people tell me how great of a job I am doing with my dog and that they are really impressed with her. I have even had people ask me to train their dogs for them so their dog would act like Amber. I just refer them to Rick. Honestly that makes me feel really good that people think Amber is doing great but after last nights incident I was not impressed. Also I am just in the first part of her training and I think she has a long way to go in my eyes. My hubby told me this, "Every dog has its day". I do not know how much truth there is to his statement. Honestly could she of just been having a bad day? I know humans have bad days.

Aubrey

Louanne Manter ~ May I ask why I should not try to make Amber a Therapy dog? You dont have to give me full details of why just want to know why you do not think this is a great idea. Did you have a bad exerpience or something or you just dont like this work feild for a dog. I am just curious.

Aubrey

I think yawning means more than one thing; it all has to do with context. Obviously it can be a sign of being tired, such as when a dog yawns just before a nap. It is also a calming behavior in that the dog is trying to -calm itself- with a yawn: thus signaling stress or avoidance. For instance, when I compete at agility trials, I sometimes see novice dogs that are under a lot of stress yawn while waiting at the start-line. Or when they're laying on the table. They would like to avoid the current situation and are yawning to calm themselves a little. However, I don't see it as a boredom behavior.

I think your dog is stressed out training at the dog park. She thinks it is her territory because she is there frequently. Seeing strange dogs, especially strange dogs acting like nitwits and not respecting other dogs/their owners, is stressful. I see this in my own dog. Tessie is a great "reader" of unbalanced dogs because she will avoid them if at all canine-ly possible -- she just doesn't want to deal with them. (I don't just mean overactive-dragging-owners-around, I also mean nervous-fearful as well. Either extreme bothers her.) But I digress. If Tessie is in a situation with a lot of unbalanced dogs, I will see her demonstrate avoidance signs such as useless sniffing and yawning. I think that your dog is stressed out by coming onto her turf and seeing a bunch of other dogs acting rudely. When they are in the distance and not directly trying to bother her, she just wants to avoid them. When they get in her face, she reacts -- understandably so!

The leaning into you thing could be a training issue (the dog thinks its the right thing to do -- I went through a phase of this while teaching Tessie to finish) or still an avoidance issue ("I'm staying as far away from those dogs as possible by getting close to you!") Does she do this away from the park?

I disagree with what your military friend says about defense. If you are the pack leader, YOU call the shots and YOU decide when there's going to be a fight. Amber disregarded your authority and decided she'd take matters into her own hands. Ideally, when you are confronted by a dog, your dog should literally look to you for guidance. At that time, you may've been exhibiting "go ahead" signals to your dog with your body language -- so I'm not trying to say you're a crappy pack leader. There may've just been a momentary lapse in communication.

I would definately get a prong collar for this dog as everyone else has suggested. There have been proven cases of traditional choke chains causing muscle damage to the necks of working dogs. Prong collars are much better in this regard.

If I were you, I would stop going to this dog park. A better place to train would be, perhaps, a softball/baseball field -- heeling work around people while games are going on, etc. This gets the dog used to loud noises, working around food, running-screaming-happy children, strange outfits, hats... you get the drill. You are highly unlikely to encounter dogs at a baseball field. If it's more quiet, you can walk her on the bleachers to get her used to different surfaces (bleachers are often metal or plastic) and to build confidence by teaching her to traverse a plank, like we do in agility.

Your dog will not have to deal with crazed, out of control dogs at a CGC/TDI test -- I promise you that. Don't look at this as a set back, look at it as a learning experience. If CGC/TDI is your goal I would focus far more on working around people than dogs anyway. Good luck!

Oh, and I think Louanne meant that you don't want a therapy dog to think it is alpha -- not that having a therapy dog is "bad". A strange person, like on crutches or on a wheelchair, could trigger her into thinking "THREAT!" She would then try to defend you from it much like she tried to defend you from the Dane... and then you can kiss your therapy dog license goodbye. If your dog thinks you are the leader, she will ask you "Hey, is this a threat? Should I be concerned? Are we going to fight it?" when she sees something strange/frightening/threatening, i.e., a person on a bicycle, wheelchair, scooter, whatever. This is much better than your dog telling you "I'LL EAT IT, don't worry!" as it lunges into a full-scale attack because, you know, that's what it thinks it needs to do.

Hi Michael,

If one is the result of another, then I'm half right for not recognizing the root cause, only the effect and the dogs' intention to display its feelings to others...beats being all wrong.

You bet, then who's counting?

Katherine has great advice when she says "Don't look at this as a set back, look at it as a learning experience". This is the best way to look at it. The same template is in place for protection training as well as o/b. Sometimes it's 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. A total learning experience for dog and trainer.

Hi Audrey:

I wasn't saying that she shouldn't become a therapy dog.

I was responding to the part about where someone told you that if she tries to "attack", that you let her do what she wants to do.

So what I was trying to say, if you want her to be a therapy dog, then I certainly wouldn't allow her to "attack" anyone or anything, just because she wants to.

You need to be her leader and protect her and make her feel safe and that you are the boss. If you want her to attack, only then should she do so. That was the point I was trying to make.

And if you were going to train her to "attack", would you want this same dog to also be a therapy dog. I was trying to say, I would not mix the two. Is that more clear?

Again, I am a novice.

P.S. Thanks Katherine, yes you understood my post ... but I went back and re-read it and can see why she mis-understood my intent.

Happy Memorial Day Everyone!



Edited by Louanne Manter (05/28/2007 08:30 PM)
Edit reason: added post-script

Katherine Ostiguy ~ You asked, “Does she do this away from the park?” (Lean into me) Yes she leans into me anywhere we are. Home, walking in the community, playing in the backyard, and where ever she feels like it. I give her the off command and she doesn’t do it for a while after the off command however a little while into the training or play she is leaning back into me again. NOW I notice a big difference tonight after using the Prong collar on her. She was turning better and not bumping into my leg on a U-turns and she was not making wide about turns either. The figure 8’s where mmuuuucchh better. Also, when she does come back into a finish position she did not lean into me as often as she was. I counted tonight 1 time she leaned into me I gave a little pop on the prong collar and said off at the same time and she didn’t lean into me again. So yeah it made a huge difference using the prong collar.

I just et scared with the prong collar it looks like it would hurt and I placed it on my leg and gave a small pop and it hurt me but my hubby told me she has fur around her neck I don’t have fur protecting my leg. LOL well duh!!!

I thought I should disagree with my military neighbor. I don’t want her to attack or even think it is ok to do anything aggressive. That is not why I got this dog. I just want a dog that loves being around me and I get to enjoy being around her. I wanted the company more then anything. Being my hubby is gone a lot.

Now Amber is really good with other neighbors dogs I must agree with you on the fact it must be because of the dogs at the park and the way they act and her thinking it is her territory. There are a lot of dogs there that are just out of control. Also people getting to close to each other and other dogs getting into fights because the lack of attention of the owner towards there dogs. You said, “I would stop going to this dog park. A better place to train would be, perhaps, a softball/baseball field -- heeling work around people while games are going on, etc. This gets the dog used to loud noises; working around food, running-screaming-happy children, strange outfits, hats... you get the drill.” I am going to follow your directions and try this I also talked to Rick my dog trainer and he stated something similar. I told Rick tonight I felt like I was just moments away from a dog fight breaking out between my dog and someone else’s dog because of the lack of attention the handlers were placing into their dogs. (I try to watch Amber’s behaviors as best as I can, I actually am beginning to notice when she is going to react to something or not because I am paying closer attention to her then most of the other handlers at the park.) I watch her tail, her eyes, her ears, and her body posture and I am getting slowly better at noticing when she will react. I have not perfected my method yet but I am trying hard to catch her before the behavior begins. There is subtle movements that she does make that now catch my eye and I can correct her behavior before it even begins. I am glad I began this dog training course to. I am hoping that once she begins to trust that other dogs are not a threat around us I can place her in the Therapy training course through Delta Society… However I was told to get that problem under control first before I can even think about starting the training for a therapy dog. I did get a few books to read.
1. Therapy Dogs Training Your Dog to Reach Others by; Kathy Diamond Davis
2. The Power of Positive Dog Training by: Pat Miller
3. How Dogs Think Understanding the Canine Mind by: Stanley Coren
4. Then I got this book for the “FUTURE” I will start training this stuff until Amber has mastered the basic training stuff….. Dog Tricks for Dummies by: Sarah Hodgson

I was told if a Therapy Dog does tricks they can be a lot more fun for the people that are in the hospital. So that is why I bought this book…


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Louanne Manter ~ I am so sorry if I misunderstood what you where trying to say. I thought maybe you had some kind of bad experience with therapy dogs or a therapy dog you where using. That is why I asked you that question. Again I am sorry I interpreted your statement the way I did.


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I never had intention of this dog being an attack dog EVER!!! Gosh that was the farthest thing from my mind. I just don’t want her thinking it is OK to attack other dogs that lunges at us. I also don’t want her staring other dogs down because I was told by the dog trainer when she does that this is provoking the other dogs to lunge at her because she is giving off a certain body language one that I have know idea how to recognize or even stop.

I would like her to be a therapy dog because I enjoy volunteering at the hospital now and I see other peoples therapy dogs coming in and out and I think it would be a very rewarding volunteer job, besides the current volunteer job I currently have telling people where rooms or bathrooms are located in the hospital. I love being around the sick people and I love my dog so I figured this would be the best volunteer job for her and me.

I admit I am not perfect at being the leader I am sure I have a lot to learn Katherine but all I can say is that at least I am trying my hardest to understand what is expected from the pack leader. I been reading a lot of the articles on this site plus also working with Rick (the dog trainer I mentioned) and I think Amber and myself have come a long way since March.

Even though I am not the greatest reader in the world I still try hard to read these books I got recently from Barnes -n- Noble. I figured the books will never hurt...

I thank you all for your attention on this matter you all have been great. I am going to take everything everyone has said into consideration. You all have been great people. I am glad Ed allowed this forum on his site. It is very helpful to people like myself that doesn't have a lot of knowledge about this subject. Again I am not perfect at being a pack leader but at least I try hard. (SMILES)

Thanks everyone,

Aubrey

On a side-note, yes, teaching your dog fun tricks really is great in therapy work. Retrieving interesting objects is always a good one, as well as sitting pretty and things like that. Tessie wipes at her face on cue, and also retrieves tissue from a box when you sneeze. I have also taught her to "pickpocket" and take money from someone's back pocket -- the taller the dog is, the better this works, because they won't be tempted to jump up on the person's rear end and ruin the trick.

Oh wow that is so cool Kathrine. I would really like to have Amber doing some tricks like that; it would make for a fun day at the hospital.

She doesn't retrieve that well I will through the ball, Kong, rope, dumbbell, and any other thing she will chase it but she doesn't pick it up and bring it back. I was told she has a good prey drive but she is not good with retrieving once she gets to the prey.

Anyways a friend of mine brings over her 3 year old dog a lot and Amber and him play really well together. However, Amber keeps nipping at the back of his legs when he runs. It looks funny as heck and I realize this is normal herding behavior but the other dog does not like it to much. I honestly don’t know how to stop it or redirect that behavior into something fun or possibly even a trick. Everyone keeps telling me I should find methods to redirect all her natural behaviors into something fun. Apparently I am not that imaginative.

Aubrey