Thanks, he's everythng I dreamed he would be and more, hahaha that sounds soo corny, but true, he's grand!

 Quote: jennifer marshal

 Quote: jenni williams

 Quote: jennifer marshal

These were all dogs I saw come into the pet store I used to work at, customers that had prong collars suggested to them by other employees at that very store when the dogs were only 3-4 months of age.

Could what you saw as desentization really have more to do with the fact that they were improperly fit or used? As someone said on here recently (sorry, can't remember who...Mike Arnold? Was it you?) "An improperly fitted prong collar corrects a dog about as much as shaking a finger at it" or something similar.

I use prongs on puppies when their behavior warrants it; I don't go by age, necessarily. My one GSD didn't challenge me until he was over a year old. My other one bit me after a correction at 11ish weeks. His sire is highly handler-aggressive, so knowing the potential, yep, Baby got himself fitted for a prong! Depends on the dog is all I'm saying.

If he just got a 6 month old, the dog may settle in fine and not need it, but honestly, properly used, they're not torture devices, so why not use them? Why wait until you have a big problem?

I agree it depends on the dog, and most of them were not fitted properly but a lot of those dogs had actual "wounds" places where the collar dug in or scrapes from it rubbing from the dog pulling as hard as it could.

You have to use Sprenger prongs. Cheap ones are sharp and just generally don't work as well. They bend easily, too, and don't allow for proper movement of the links. A dog should not pull at all on prong, and if they're pulling as hard as they can, it has to be too low down the neck, where it's not as sensitive, hence they can pull hard enough to leave marks.

I agree, I only use HS but the average joe pet owner sees the price and EEK! they refuse to pay that much for a dog collar. They were too low on the dogs necks but low or not it still causes pain and the dogs become used to the sensation.

Same as a regular choke chain that is too low on the dogs neck, a dog can cause damage to the muscles in its neck if allowed to nearly strangle itself the way a lot of dogs will do. Switching those dogs to a collar of the right size and adjusting it, possitioning it the right way on the neck it was still more difficult to work with them than a dog who has a choke chain on for the first time that is on correctly. They still pull (though not as hard) because they are used to having their airway restricted and are used to the pain. Same with the prong, they still pull because they are used to the pinching feel and the sometimes sharp spots on the collar that cause injuries. Those dogs are harder to "retrain" with a prong, even fitted properly. Not saying it is impossible, it is very possible, it is just sad to see unnecessary methods being used on dogs that don't need it.

Properly fitted a prong works well if used in the right way, no doubt about that. I just still stick by my preference in ground up training, but will say that some dogs don't respond to the lesser methods and require the use of a prong at a young age, but at least you know by trying the other methods that something else wouldn't work first.

It may be because of my experience working with horses, animals that don't respond as well to aggressive methods in training due to being prey animals. Not saying I think a prong is an aggressive or bad method of course, just referring to some of the old ways used to train horses in comparrison to the methods of today.

If BB needs a prong or ecollar because he doesn't respond to other methods, 6 months or not, a prong should be used.

Agreed; I train horses in addition to dogs too. I'm a dressage queen, so I always use a (Sprenger ) snaffle, and the double-bridle is only for the well-trained, third-level+ horses that are ready for it. It seems the "work your way up method" is the most constructive method with dogs as well, and not giving your dog more than he's ready to handle is important. But with a highly driven, large dog sometimes a flat collar just doesn't cut it in terms of having some control. I always wait as long as possible to use a prong though, I'll admit; but not so long that the dog has a chance to develop bad habits. My dog would wouldn't even acknowledge a correction on a flat collar.

PS: Ted, Your new Mal is GORGEOUS

Edited by Kristel Smart (08/04/2007 05:52 PM)
Edit reason: Wanted to add a PS

When my boy is being worked or if he is taken into situations that could become volitile or somewhere unpredictable, I don't use his flat nylon collar for corrections. It would have zero effect if he were in drive but when we go for regular exercise walks/jogs he responds to a pop with the lead when wearing his flat nylon collar, though he always has a choker on in case I need to switch over.

I have been known to keep two leashes on my dog, one regular 4' leather lead and a short 12" traffic lead, the traffic lead being attached to the prong collar or choke chain and the long lead attached to the flat nylon or choke chain (depending on where I am) and I judge by the surroundings and his reactions which collar to use.

There are a couple of things you can do if you want to use a prong on your pup just for the pulling.
You can put rubber tips on the prongs (these are usually located near the prong collars and come in several sizes) or you can purchase a plastic prong collar. I bought one of these for one of my adult dogs and the collar works great. The only thing I don't like about it is, it's difficult to get the sections apart.
I use a prong collar on one of my other dogs not because she pulls because she never does, the prong collar is the only collar that will stay on her neck. Maggie has a funny shaped body. Her head is small and her body is round and she has no neck so every other collar slips off of her. I put the rubber tips on her collar.