Robbin,

I know exactly how you feel. I finally had to give up the 10-minute-away club and resign myself to driving 4 hours round trip to get the level of training I wanted. And I must say, I think I hit the jackpot. The members, facility and training director at my new club make the drive worth every minute. At last my dog and I are having fun and my dog is making incredibly quick progress. There ARE good clubs out there, and trainers who don't have dominance issues.

Are there any clubs that might be a bit farther away, but still within reach? Honestly, if I hadn't found this new one, I would have given up Schutzhund, which would have been bad because my dog just loves it and is a real workaholic. But we're getting so much joy out of training now I wake up every morning and can't believe my good fortune. I wish you luck and hope you can find the same.

Thanks, Anita...I have a sad feeling that I'm going to need it. I would even be willing to drive to Tucson if I knew there was someone or a club there worth going to. I actually haven't asked anyone about that yet. Still, the trainer that I was recommended who never calls back, was given to me by a breeder in the area. Maybe I should start talking to breeders around here. Problem is there are some pretty biased and not educated breeders in tbis area. No one I have spoken to knows about Ed and his philosophies. Most are still operating under old ideas. Let's face it, once you go Ed there's no going back! ~sigh~ Well in the meantime if there are any ideas from the forum on what I can be doing alone with my dog I would appreciate them.

Robbin, in my transition phase between clubs, I used the "Preparing Your Dog for the Helper" DVD. Invaluable (but get Focus/Drive/Grip first). There are a couple of things that were left out, though:

1. When buying a tug, it should fill the dog's mouth so he/she can get a good firm grip. If you have a dog with a big mouth, also purchase a medieval rack so you can stretch your hands to fit around the tug.

2. The work is best done before your dog grows to be taller than you. The dog, not the handler, is supposed to jump up for the tug. And the handler is supposed to swing the dog around in the air.

Anita, has your dog swung you a few times? LOL

Good luck in your search and don't give up. Have you contacted all the USA, DVG clubs in your area and asked them for ideas/names? I would also email any regional directors and ask it they know of anyone. They may know of someone in your area that is not affliated with a club.

If you find a club that is a distance away that you like, ask the trainer if you spend the night at a rest stop (sympathy ploy) if you can pick up some training the next day. Good training one weekend a month is better then bad training every week.

I have offered an air matress and a piece of floor to several people that are in the area for training and have a drive. I think most clubs are the same way!

medieval rack?? Huh?

 Quote: RobbinMann

medieval rack?? Huh?

Oh dear, I'm showing my age! Those of us who were around for the Inquisition remember the Rack as the forerunner of chiropractors. It was that lovely device used to stretch the body of an unbeliever into a more politically correct size.

 Quote: RobbinMann

medieval rack?? Huh?

What I meant was: I dutifully bought a tug wide enough to give my guy a good, full-mouth grip. And then discovered I couldn't use it properly because it was too big for me to get a good grip on. Duh! I wound up donating it to the club inventory.

Here's how I feel about finding a good trainer here in Phoenix, and is what I wrote to Robbin:

I can't imagine going through all the trouble to find a good breeder for a GSD that I wanted to train for protection, all the trouble I've gone through, most of all the anticipation of having a protection trained dog, just to find out there's no good trainers here. Didn't ever imagine I would encounter that problem when I got my dog.

Other than all the other crap that goes on in AZ, the above alone would make me want to move.

I'm venting.....but this situation really is very ridiculous and as I said, unimaginable.

Here's a re-print of my old take on the different types of trainers and training situations that you might find ( and my view on what to look for or avoid in determining if a trainer is worth using) :

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=97896&Searchpage=2&Main=10727&Words=training&topic=0&Search=true#Post97896

The types of training classes:

Most common that I see is an actual chartered obedience club ( Aligned with the AKC and can hold sanctioned trials and matches ) or the ob portion of a breed or kennel club. In these classes the instructors are volunteers and the quality varied greatly. Some times you get a good, knowledgeable trainer, but sometimes you get a club member that may not have much experience and doesn't really know what they're doing.
You have two types of students in these classes - club members that working a competition dog up through the ranks, and the non-club members that have paid for the class.

Classes run by "Pet Shop" or the branches usually suck. The instructors are usually marginal at best, and they're under the thumb of the store, so they're hamstringed in how they can even teach. Plus the class is usually full of unmotivated students being trained in a 15' x 20' area, way too small to be even able to heel.

Classes held at professional kennel sites - these tend to be more serious classes ( and *far* more expensive ) and unfortunately also range widely in trainer experience and instructional skill. You can train with hard-core top level instructors ( for beginning classes you're usually going to be trained by the assistant ) and for someone serious about training, these can be the best choice if you get the right instructor.



Now, this is just my opinion, but it doesn't hurt to ask the instructors what their experience is and what their training philosophy is.

An instructor for the AKC ob clubs should at least have a few CD titles under their belt as a minimum, and a UD or two is a sign that the instructor is at least a serious competitor, which usually translates into being a better instructor.

For the Pet Smart type instructors, don't bother, the odds of them having a title or competing is slim-to-none.

For the Kennel site/ Professionals - now *here* is where you should be asking to *see* their titles, and trophies, etc, etc. There are *far* too many "trainers" with a slick website and a lot of self-promotion that actually have no real experience in dog training. And these are not the people that you should be handing over your hard earned money to.
Also, if you're headed to a professional, ask him to show you the training on his dog - this is an excellent way to see what the instructor is capable of ( of course, you'll ask to make sure that the trainer actually trained the dog and didn't buy him already titled, right? ) and how he interacts with the dog. A instructor's dog should look sharp and willing and like a dog that you'd want to own.




Ok, to me these are warning signs that you're not probably not getting a good instructor:

They don't own a dog or have one as a demonstration dog.
They've never titled a dog in any legitimate dog sport.
They have the "APDT" or the "CPT" and other bogus pet training certifications plastered on their website ( but oddly..they have no titles... )
They have their "AKC Canine Good Citizenship Evaluator" number all over their site ( which doesn't require any training experience to get )
They'll always have the token "after a lifetime of dog ownership, trainer Joe Blow has turned that experience into...." ( well, the turned that "experience" into no titles, apparently... )
They have photo's of all the Football players and movie stars who have bought dogs from them ( so those type of owners are expert judges of dog training? Didn't think so.... )
Have their "Master Dog trainer" title boldly displayed ( ask them from where - if it was any place besides the Tom Rose School or Triple Crown Academy, then that title doesn't mean spit )
Make the claims like "has trained 8000 dogs in a 17 year period ( taken from an actual site ) Do the math - that's 470 dogs a year. That is a totally BS claim with no basis in reality, sorry.
Feels the need to note how many books that they've read on dog training ( if a trainer is so desperate to pad their claims that they're stuck telling you about the number of books that they've read about training, you and your dog are in trouble )
Have training or protection video's on their website that are just plain bad. If that's the best they can do and they're willing to put it on the internet for everyone to see, what are they going to do with *your* dog?


All this is just my opinion,but I've seen this stuff in real life soooo long that I'm getting hard to fool now.
And I don't want ya'll fooled either!
Please, you're entrusting your dog and your cash to these people, start using a critical eye and ask *questions* before you take the step!

When I purchased my first puppy, Pepper I thought I had everything covered. I had a local club that I went out to a few times and fell in love with the decoy/trainer. He spent a lot of time with me explaining what he was doing with the dogs any why.

I even had a Plan B. Longer driver but top level trainer.

Brought puppy home and Plan A was fired by the local club and replaced by someone that did not want to even look at a puppy under a year old and Plan B had moved out of state.

It is very frustrating, wish I had words of widsom for you. It should not be as hard as it is if you are willing to travel, spend time, spend money.