Hi Jennifer! Thanks for your post. Gus didn't do anything destructive at the boarding kennel that could be associated with separation anxiety. He didn't bark, cry, or whine much either. My husband and I have always worked consistently with him on obedience and pack structure (I have poured over Ed Frawley's resources on pack structure and basic dog obedience!). I suppose we can ramp that up a notch, but we've never really let up on that aspect with him, because we know male GSDs are prone to want to jockey for position in the pack when they get older, so we wanted to establish his place in our pack (the bottom!) before he even got to that point.

We've been working with Gus since we got back using the "walking with neighbors" technique, sitting and observing things from a distance, and using treats and his favorite blue ball. So far so good, although I have noticed that Gus has been even more skiddish since we got him home from his boarding kennel stay last week... when we're walking with neighbors, if he accidentially brushes his head against a sign he didn't know was there, he quickly jerks away and acts startled. It passes quickly, and then he's back to normal. I think this might just be because this is the first week we've been exposing him this consistenly (EVERY day!) to "strangers." I hope to start to see some small changes soon, though, just to make me feel better :-)

I have thought about going back to the boarding kennel, but I agree, I don't think we're quite ready for that yet.

Also, I've gotten a lot of advice to let "strangers" throw him especially delicious treats.... but we're a bit limited in this because he's got a sensitive stomach (standard kibble gives him diarreah, so he's on one of those single-source protien kibbles, duck and potato, which is doing great for him). Lots of people tell me to use hot dog... but I'm worried about all those fillers. What else would be easy on his stomach that's something he will go absolutely crazy for?

...Still dealing with lots of stubborn people who make nasty comments to Gus like, "what's wrong with you, scardey-cat?!" when he shies away from their head-on approach, after I specifically tell them to IGNORE the dog and why. Then I get the nasty comments, "I've never seen such an unfriendly dog! What's wrong with him?!" So I explain again, and they still don't get it. I want to yell, "YOU'RE what's wrong! Use your common sense and don't keep approaching a dog who shies away!!"

Sorry for the rant, but it all goes part-and-parcel with the whole thing :-)

 Quote: liz thomson

We had him in doggie daycare from the time we got him at 3 months old until he was about 6 months old. We began noticing the behavior changes (shyness toward strangers) around 5 months old.

It's really impossible to know what really goes on at boarding kennels or doggie daycare facilities. If his behavior changed at 5 months, something happened, whether you were told honestly about it or not. Either someone did something to scare him, or he was hurt by another dog. I don't like places that allow dogs to "play" together. A facility that lets this go on is like a dog park. I understand you realize about dog parks now, but a doggie daycare is the same thing as is a kennel that allows dogs to intermingle. Read about dog parks here: http://leerburg.com/dogparks.htm Very good and thorough info.

Since your dog obviously doesn't do well at either daycare or boarding kennels, next time you need to leave him, consider getting a reputable, experienced and recommended petsitter to come into your home. Your dog will be on familiar territory which eliminates one area of stress at being separated from you. He won't be put in the position where he will be made to "socialize" with other dogs.

Being home, he will always have in the back of his mind that you will return as you've done so many times before - he's conditioned to that. Not so at a kennel where he has no clue as to whether you will return or not. A kennel scenario can be extremely stressful to a dog. No reason to put him through that again, especially when he's shown he doesn't do well when there.

Three things enter into my mind immediately when I think about someone leaving a dog at a boarding kennel:
He's removed from his home and put in a strange place.
He's pretty much made to interact with strangers and other dogs.
He doesn't know it isn't a temporary situation, doesn't know you will be returning and could feel abandoned by you, with whom he has a tight bond.

Pretty much like a dog pound - in fact exactly like a dog pound.

There's also no reason for your dog to socialize with other dogs.

I also want to stress that I see absolutely no reason to return to this kennel with your dog. You're just adding stress to stress. It's not a cure and I believe you will frighten him again as he won't understand you're not leaving him there again when he first arrives.

Dear Liz: you could use kosher hot dogs like Hebrew National. They have no fillers or anything like that.
My dogs loves em
God bless you
Sharon Empson

Oh and I agree I wouldn't take my dog back there. If I took a child somewhere and they were treated in a way that changed their personality, I wouldn't take them back. You pups is unable to communicate what happened to him. Take these changes as a warning and don't take him back. I agree, they will feel abandoned and maybe treated badly. What training and background do these people have who monitor the dogs behavior? I would get a sitter, a really good sitter, and have them come to the house a few times, see how your dog reacts to them.
Remember you are your pups pack leader and protector.
Sharon Empson

As someone who works primarily with dogs that are nervous, fearfull, or aggressive, or a lovely combination of all of the above - stress is required in order to condition a dog and help eliminate the nervous/fearful response.

Nervous and fearful dogs are stressed very often. If Liz were to follow the "never take my dog back to a place it felt stressed" idea, she would never be able to take him on walks.

The point of going back is to find out what happened. If it is simply the norm - taking a dog out of it's territory, feeling ill from a very recent vaccination, to a strange place, then it will help the dog to go back with you and leave with you without being left there. I was not saying to take him back and put him in a cage there and walk off.

Liz had stated that a previous boarding kennels he did well - that an unknown incident occured at a doggie day-care that changed his outlook on life.

Having already come back and gotten him and taken him home from this specific boarding kennel has begun the association with the human coming back, and she would not be leaving him there in the first place. Stress about being there, period is inevitable no matter where she takes him because he is a nervous dog.

I will say, however, that if you plan to never go back to that kennel, and won't be boarding him at kennels anymore, then you don't need to take him back there. I agree with the use of dog sitters/pet sitters, but you have to be just as careful with them as you do with boarding kennels and you would need to get Gus very used to that person before they just show up one day when you aren't around.

Liz-

About the people that refuse to stop and continue to advance on him - get nasty if you have to in order to keep them away. This is your dog, you have a right to say who can and cannot pet your dog. You have personal space, and so does your dog. It needs to be respected. Go ahead and tell them they are what is wrong - because they ARE what is wrong. If they continue to advance on Gus after you told them not to, I would bodily put myself between them and the dog and repeat "Please do not come any closer to my dog. He is in training to overcome his shyness." You can even tell them that he had a traumatic experience as a pup outside of the home (daycare) and are trying to help him overcome his fear. This will usually stop them from thinking "UGH what an icky dog!" they will then feel bad for the dog, and be more likely to listen to your requests.

The throwing of the treats... ah this has mixed results. A dog that is fearful of strangers won't react well to the motion of having something thrown at it - and depending on the aim of the person throwing it, the treat may widely miss the mark and he doesn't get it. Nervous dogs also often lose their food/treat drive when overly stressed, and the motion combined with the stranger being somewhat close, he should focus on you first, be in a nice sit first, and break the cycle of stranger-fear-run-hide!

The look at me game is very important with nervous dogs and it can likewise be difficult at first because he will not want to take his eyes off the stranger/scary thing. Put his fave toy/treat right in front of his nose, make prey movements, and reward for him averting his gaze at the stranger, even if he isn't looking at you. Repeat this, moving the object closer to your face and say his name to get him to focus on you from the toy/treat, rather than the stranger. This often works better than auto asking for a look at me, in the beginning.

If a treat is to be used by strangers, I suggest whatever you use that he is used to and likes that will not upset his stomach. You can do this with favorite toys, also. Have the person crouch with their knees bent and abdomen upright, with hand outstretched with the toy or treat, not standing and throwing. If he is interested at all in a treat from a stranger, he will be more likely to take it if they are not looming over him (which to a lot of dogs, looming is simply standing upright, being above them is being dominant) if he is interested, reward him for his interest with the object, and the stranger doesn't touch him. This will help him be interested in strangers, but for a fair amount of dogs doesn't help, they have no want of the object from what they are afraid of.

The dog would need to get the treat immediately on the treat throw for it to be directly linked to the throwing. I mean, within 5 seconds of the hand motion to throw the treat the dog has to have it in his mouth or there is no connection between stranger - scary motion with hand - treat. Also, you are essentially having a stranger reward him for nervousness, whatever he is doing at the very moment that person gives him the reward, will be reinforced. So if he backed up at the person advancing on him and they tossed him a treat and he took it, or if he bolted or darted from the hand movement but still got the treat, he now has an association between strangers -shying away - getting tasties from strangers. While it will take more than once to create a problem, I prefer to not start.

We want a calm attitude to be rewarded, we want an advance on the stranger to be rewarded. This is why he needs to be coached in focusing on you, the look at me game, and a calm sit, way before he really interacts with the strangers. He needs to have a firm grasp on looking at you, and be comfortable that looking at you is not going to cause his fear to come at him, that taking his eyes off the scary person or thing, is not going to get him killed or hurt (or advanced on and petted)

 Quote: jennifer marshal

... If they continue to advance on Gus after you told them not to, I would bodily put myself between them and the dog and repeat "Please do not come any closer to my dog. He is in training to overcome his shyness." You can even tell them that he had a traumatic experience as a pup outside of the home (daycare) and are trying to help him overcome his fear. This will usually stop them from thinking "UGH what an icky dog!" they will then feel bad for the dog, and be more likely to listen to your requests.

....

We want a calm attitude to be rewarded, we want an advance on the stranger to be rewarded. This is why he needs to be coached in focusing on you, the look at me game, and a calm sit, way before he really interacts with the strangers. He needs to have a firm grasp on looking at you, and be comfortable that looking at you is not going to cause his fear to come at him, that taking his eyes off the scary person or thing, is not going to get him killed or hurt (or advanced on and petted)

First of all, good post, Jennifer. I just want to add, that you might want to grab him right when you get home from work, (before his evening meal) and take him out, find a stranger, ask them to hold a treat on their flat hand, reach towards the dog, and turn their faces/bodies away. If they're willing to wait (strangers can be really nice for dogs) he may get up the guts to approach. He is rewarded for approaching something that makes him uncomfortable. He can sneak in, get the treat, and immediately back out (which relieves stress, and is in and of itself a reward). IF He's able to perform this exercise, and you can find strangers that are understanding enough to help, it's great. You have to be aware of the fact that you're teaching your dog to take food from strangers. But I am of this school: Any dog, given sufficient temptation and my absence, will take food from a stranger. Really. Seriously. If a five year old will do it, a dog will do it.

Then, to the first thing I quoted: If people approach Macy and I don't want them to touch her I just tell them she bites. They tend to not show too much interest, after that point. I don't know if I'd say this in my own neighborhood, to a neighbor, but I definitely say it to strangers when we're working in public places.

Thanks David I agree with you in that he should be hungry to increase his interest in the treat from the stranger, and have been successful in doing that myself - I forgot to mention it!

I have noticed however that being hungry makes some dogs more edgy, more nervous to begin with, but generally it increases the dog's food/treat drive enough to make them notice the treat sooner. Some dogs don't have much food/treat drive and you can wind up with a dog that is more edgy and doesn't want the treat - though it isn't common in larger breeds, I see this primarily with small/toy dogs.

So Liz if Gus seems a bit more skittish than usual when hungry just be patient - and the stranger/helper should be patient, also. Ah, and packing nummies.

Nothing better than a tastey morsel when you are hungry. Which reminds me it is way past my lunch time!

Jennifer and David - Thanks for your posts. I really appreciate you relaying your own experiences, because this week has not been successful in getting Gus to take treats from strangers. But THANK YOU for explaining that Gus needs to take the treat within 5 seconds of the stranger throwing it, or else he gets a different association that we intended. I have made that mistake this week, and I will correct it immediately.

Gus definitely seems stressed when we're out in a public place and not walking. It's stressful for him to sit and "people watch." He knows the "watch me" command, but it flies out of his head when other people are around. I'll take your advice and use treats (and patience!) to make him look back at me.

I know it is a VERY long process to rebuild a dog's self-confidence and trust. And even though it's only the first week we've been working on this in earnest, I'm worried he'll never change!! I know that's irrational and too soon to make that determination, but it is stressing me out a bit because I want to help him overcome his fears (and I feel like whatever is wrong is, naturally, my fault!)

Thanks again for your help, I'll keep you updated on our progress :-)

One last piece of advice, Liz. Make a note of where he's at Right Now. If he shies away from something, remember it. Remember how long it takes him to approach it.

Then, two weeks from now, look back and compare.

It's very easy to lose track of our dogs progress. It's important to the process that you be able to recognize not just his strengths and weaknesses, but also his progression.

Good idea David, I'll do that. The last thing I want to do is make Gus feel as though I he can't do anything right, ON TOP of being anxious and fearful!!