Maybe Will, Mike or others can comment here but it sounds like you want to protection train a dog you get in the future for that purpose. Can you be more specific about what you want exactly? Because I feel compelled to tell you that working your own dog on a sleeve or suit and training him in all phases of protection with YOU as the decoy is not something a novice should ever undertake.

There are professionals out there with years of experience that use others to decoy for their dogs. I guess there may be a few who occasionally decoy for their own dogs (one of my trainers did off and on), but it wouldn't be something you would see being done as common place.

It's not something I would ever do. It's one thing to work with your dog for bite foundation with tugs and building drive, etc, but to decoy for your own dog? Not a good idea.

Adding to my post above, Mallory, you're not going to get a legitimate answer to your question on what to look for in a school until you let us know if you intend to decoy for your own dog.

 Quote: mallory kwiatkowski

back to my original question-when looking at a training school-what do i need to be looking for-what would some red flags be-etc.

i know i need more experience. Don't think i believe this course will throw me into the world of dog training, i know it won't, it's just a course. But like i said, i have to start somewhere.

so-please-
could we compile a list maybe of what to look for in a school, some things that if i saw, to walk away, etc.

Ok, I'm going to answer your question in two ways - the first being about that "you have to start somewhere"

I agree about "you have to start somewhere", but paying money to a dog trainer's school isn't a way that I think any beginner should ever consider.
Here's what you should do to become a competent dog trainer that can give value to your clients:


First, join your local dog obedience training club and do your ground work there. Many areas have AKC kennel clubs which have a large percentage of conformation people and a smaller percentage of obedience people, join that also - with luck, that will give you two nights of organized training a week. Along with your personal practice everyday.
Train for competition and start getting some meaningful titles on your dogs as a basic start. Titles have a function that show prospective clients that you've reached a level of competence.

Squeeze every drop of knowledge out of these clubs trainer's, it's your first step on the road to being a trainer yourself. If they have a tracking club, join it and train with them.
Volunteer at every opportunity at places like the local shelter - it's important networking and after you have the basics of obedience training down pat, ask to train shelter dogs to make them more adoptable, most shelters will jump on this and you'll learn to start reading dogs ( a *critical* skill that takes years of hands on experience to get good at ).

Attend dog training seminars and be willing to travel to get to them - you'll learn different ways of training from top-level trainers and network with fellow dog trainers, aim to attend at least one a year.


After two to three years of the above training you have reached the point where you should have a few titles in different venues ( AKC obedience and AKC tracking ), now it's time to search out a SchH club and begin training with them.
Repeat with SchH about the same timeline as with your previous AKC clubs and start titling some dogs in SchH, give yourself about two years here. During protection training of the other dogs, watch closely and ask question in an attempt to learn to read dogs during bite training.If you're serious here, then discuss becoming a helper with the club, and if they consent to training you, get ready to dump at least $600 in equipment to use as a helper.

Ok, at this point you've gotten five years of hands on experience - you can train obedience, tracking, and have at least the basics of SchH protection down. Now you should have enough tools in your dog training kit that you can start in real world protection .
If you want to learn to train for real world protection, you should find a protection trainer that has a least fifteen to twenty years of dog experience as I outlined above, then add either Police K9 or Military Working Dog experience of at least five years.

That's how you *should* go about it - most people won't and will have a ready made excuse to why they can't invest the time/money/etc. into really developing their skills but they only end up short changing themselves and end up in the "wannabe" category.


Ok, questions to ask/ things to look for at the school:

What titles do the trainers hold?
There are some non-titled trainers that do a good job, but these are *rare*. For trainers to be running a dog training school not to have a lot of titles in different venues ( titles just in *one* venue is a warning sign ) is a big warning sign.

Next, ask to see a list ( and actually take the time to call former students ) of people that they've trained. Look and evaluate at what level those former students are working at now.

Does the school give out "Master Trainer" certificates for less than six to nine months of hard, one-on-one daily training? If so.....walk away, they're bogus.


If you're still h*ll-bent on attending a school:
I'd also make this comment - you need to be willing to travel to get good dog training. I know that life's circumstances may prevent this, but you'd be much better served by going to the best of the dog training schools - and the only ones to consider are the Tom Rose Dog Training Academy http://www.tomrose.com/ or Triple Crown Dog Academy http://www.triplecrowndogs.com/ , all the others are not worth the money, period.
Do what you can to be able to take the time off to attend those schools, any other school is a bad choice.

Mallory, I was in the process of writing some longwinded response to your post about joining some OB clubs first, and titling the dogs you do have, observing/volunteering/track laying/etc at a sport club and becoming a sponge there, and getting every book and DVD on training form the top trainers, when I saw that Will had put it all so perfect!!

I know that your dogs are just pets, but you should be able to put at least an OB and tracking title on each of them (age permitting) before I would look at you for my pet dogs.

Will’s thought on shelter dogs is one of the best I have heard in a long time. You will see good, bad, nervous, aggressive, submissive, aggressive and every other kind of dog imaginable. And each of those future owners will be singing your praise to high heaven. You have to be able to control every pet dog I could bring to you before I would consider bringing my sport dog to you.

After you have been observing at a sport club for a while, and making some meaningful connections, you may find that many doors open up to you with regards to a good sport prospect. Getting a sport title on a dog (or more) to show me that you have the skills to be doing bite work with a HOT dog would be very important. And even more important is that you have been in front of many dogs. I again would want proof that you could handle successfully a strong working/very driven dog.

I feel that there are only a couple of ways to be a good PP trainer. Apprentice for a TOP trainer or real life experience with these dogs. Short of law enforcement or military dog experience (at least two dogs and many, many years), you would have to prove to me that you have been working with one, and I would want to talk to them myself to verify.

I may be a little overboard, but a PPD is a very serious thing, and a HUGE responsibility. I would only want the best if I was to take all of this on again. And I don't think that a school is a way to base you knowledge. If that impresses someone, I would question his or her interest in having a PPD in the first place. They need some education...

Gosh, it was still longwinded!

 Quote: JessicaKromer

Will’s thought on shelter dogs is one of the best I have heard in a long time. You will see good, bad, nervous, aggressive, submissive, aggressive and every other kind of dog imaginable. And each of those future owners will be singing your praise to high heaven. You have to be able to control every pet dog I could bring to you before I would consider bringing my sport dog to you.

I gave Will a one-sided high-five on that too (along with his whole great post). Nothing else in my background has given me as much as working with difficult and aggressive shelter dogs.

ok-
again my end goal-to train ppd and police dogs. That will be years and years away. I get that.

I completely agree with training shelter dogs-but believe it or not-in this area, only licensed trainers are allowed to work with the shelter dogs. The various training schools make you work with the shelter dogs as part of their program.

My dogs are all mutts-what titles can i do with them-aside from CGC, etc.?

This isn't as much as me training my own dogs for protection, as one day training others.

Believe me, i have called around-offering to clean poop out of kennels just to be at a training facility every day-but no one needs help.

Even places like petsmart/co require you to be a licensed trainer-which means school.

i don't intend to decoy for my own dogs-again, none of them will ever be ppd's, but if i had to decoy for other dogs-fine.

I am very willing to travel-but as of now, i have no car.
I posted the question for when i do-

also-unless i flat out move(i can't, period, unless i win the lottery....), any non-local school is NOT an option, unless I also home all but 2 of my dogs. I won't do that. These schools only allow you to bring 1-2 personal dogs if you live on campus. If i go local-i would commute-keeping my pets(there are cats, other pets too).

 Quote: mallory kwiatkowski

I completely agree with training shelter dogs-but believe it or not-in this area, only licensed trainers are allowed to work with the shelter dogs. .... My dogs are all mutts-what titles can i do with them-aside from CGC, etc.? ...

"Licensed trainers"? Huh? I'm very impressed that shelters in your area don't need volunteers. Where I am, there is constant need of volunteers to just walk the dogs, which is an excellent toe in the door of the dog world.

Have you done the CGC? I think that it's a very good way to get started in training. (It's even step number one to becoming a CGC evaluator.)

http://www.volunteermatch.org/bymsa/m3120/c20/opp1.html is a site that matches up volunteers in your area with jobs that need doing. Here's the list of animal-related needs. I didn't go over it thoroughly, but I'm guessing that it has dog-related opportunities.

I applaud your desire to get into the dog-training world! I also know that the best of the best (at least, the ones I know) started with the basics, with their own dogs, and gradually added to their experience.

P.S. I would show up at your area shelters and ask about volunteer work, without specifically saying "training." Getting in, becoming known, watching and learning, and even seeing what doesn't work -- these are invaluable steps.

You mentioned having mutts:

Do you know about AKC Rally? Pure breeds not required!
http://www.akc.org/events/rally/getting_started.cfm

And do you know about AKC ILP?
http://www.akc.org/reg/ilpex.cfm
QUOTE: Many people have discovered the fun of teaming up with their dogs and competing in AKC Events. But, not all of those wonderful canine athletes that you see at these events are registered with the AKC. Some might be enrolled in the AKC's Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP), a program that allows unregistered dogs of registrable breeds to compete in AKC Performance and Companion Events, also 41 specific breeds in the FSS® Program that are eligible for Companion Events. END

 Quote: mallory kwiatkowski

ok-
I completely agree with training shelter dogs-but believe it or not-in this area, only licensed trainers are allowed to work with the shelter dogs.

Ok, I've only been dog training now for several decades - what exactly is a "licensed trainer"? And who issues this License?
Unless your state has started something new, there is no such thing.

My thoughts exactly. I must be learning as I seem to have people agree with some of my ideas and I agree with alot of you. thanks for this forum

 Quote: Mallory Kwiatkowski

ok-


also-unless i flat out move(i can't, period, unless i win the lottery....), any non-local school is NOT an option, unless I also home all but 2 of my dogs. I won't do that. These schools only allow you to bring 1-2 personal dogs if you live on campus. If i go local-i would commute-keeping my pets(there are cats, other pets too).

Ok, my turn for a question then, if you can only go to this school that's close to you, why ask us what questions to ask? You've aready made up your mind.

Believe me, if you ask the hard question, this school will not cut the mustard and you're going to have to make the compromise of getting substandard training at a wannabe school versus going to one of the two real dog training schools that I discussed before.
Only you can make this choice, but you'll regret making the wrong choice later.
I am in no way saying any of this to be mean, it's just the truth.