Quote: angela burrell

UM... so if he is doing his stare/focus on the other dog, do I just allow him to do this and continue walking?

Angela, I just read your reply on my thread on a similar topic - sorry, there's just too much information on this site to keep up with it all!

I also think I'm transmitting some tension to Darwin when I see other dogs, but I don't think that's the whole story. Sometimes I spot another dog before he does, but he doesn't start acting up until he's seen the other dog himself.

It does seem to be an incredibly fine line when to allow him to take a polite interest, so as not to appear overly nervous, and when to "let's go" straight away. I think that if the other dog is approaching, I'd rather move swiftly on, but if he's just viewing him from a distance, it's better to stay cool.

Whether or not this works - I'll keep you posted.

 Quote: sarah ward

so on top of picking up on your own anxiety he may now associate strange dogs not only with a possible attack but also with being choked.
Calmly walk on by, get him to refocus on you whenever he starts staring at another dog (does he know "watch me" or a similar command

Angela,

Sarah's advice is terrific.

My policy on correction is that if I am not 99% sure I am reading my dog accurately; I don't correct. I don't think that would be fair. Instead I manage the behavior to avoid an incident. You are smart in recognizing your part in Rusty's behavior, that's the first step in fixing it.

It might help to get the leash out of your hands. If you secure it around your midsection, he is less likely to read your tension since it will be spread more evenly throughout your body vs the tightening and pulling of your arm. It also frees up your hands to practice tons of positive reinforcement.

Sometimes the best offense is retreat. If you see a leashed dog approaching(I'm not comfortable turning my back on an unleashed dog), changing direction is an option to avoid an encounter. This is to get you comfortable. To work on this situation, you need to rebuild your confidence. I think the more good decisions you make where there are only good outcomes the stronger you'll feel about working on the situation (if there even is one for Rusty)

Once you feel comfortable and have a rock solid "watch me" command. You could begin to move to the side of the road have Rusty "sit" and then "watch me" as dogs pass, huge amounts of tasty treats are in order. Of course if he ignores you, you can correct. Attention to you will become the requirement. When you and he are ready, keep walking and incorporate the watch me command as dogs pass; again, inattention to you vs attention to other dogs is what gets corrected.

The important thing here is to choose walking locations which allow you the greatest opportunity to succeed. Avoid areas of off leash dogs and also neighborhoods where dogs are likely to escape from their homes or yards.

Goodluck

Having the dog moving at a pace faster than a walk can help as it increases the effectiveness of the correction if you are using a flat collar because if the dog tries to stop and fixate or stare at another dog he is knocked off balance a bit.

Put the passing behaviour you want on cue - like "on bye" or "ahead" and then you can correct for not following the command. Try some practice passing with a non-reactive dog starting far away and decreasing distance when the dog complies with your commands and work from there. Once you have some good passes and your dog understands what you want you will probably feel a little more confident. Remember it is your walk and he is going with you on your terms - so you set the rules for the walk. If you want "heel" and "on bye" that is what you correct for breaking.

A couple more excellent pieces of advice above: YES to a brisk pace when walking the dog. Just march right on by with no pause and no time for your dog even to think about the other dog; and yes, I absolutely change routes, calmly and matter-of-factly, when I see either an off-leash dog or a dog who's obviously walking his clueless owner up ahead. I have no desire at all to test my dogs' reactions under those circumstances.

Attention to me is marked and rewarded early on, and I reinforce it on walks, even after it's a solid command and even when the route is 100% clear and all is well.

Wow!!!!!! So many excellent responses!!! This all is exactly the kind of advice I needed!! Thank you!

Jennifer, just to clarify: I'm not choking him out - as in unconscious - with the DD collar. I'm using it exactly as Ed shows in the Dominant Dog DVD - lift for 2-3 seconds, straight up. only in the video, the dogs he demonstrates with calm down, and my dog doesn't - he escalates. (Probably because I've communicated to him that there is a threat).

In the Dominant Dogs DVD, my dog reacts exactly like Ed's dog Loki, the black GSD - Ed is working her with a prong collar and she sees the dog behind the fence and does exactly like my dog does. Then Ed corrects her on the prong and she reacts exactly like my dog does - she jumps up and kind of barks at him, looking as though she'd like to bite him but doesn't because he's the pack leader. (Sorry, I don't know how else to describe it.) Anyway, Ed points this out and says that a dog like Loki should be worked on a DD collar. So I studied the DD collar section of the DVD.

Anyway - I am really happy with the advice given here. I feel more confident already, and Rusty thanks you too. Is there a way I can save this thread in my user profile so I can always refer to it? Otherwise I'm printing it out!

You have received some great advice on this thread!

I had the EXACT same issue with my male. With dogs and some people. I had labeled him DA and to dominant around some people. I was wrong. He IS dominant, but not aggressive, and after talking to our training director about passing the BH (the part where the dog is left alone and a dog is walked by), he showed me that it was me that was the issue. I knew that he was fine around small and calm dogs, so I ignored them and so did he. When I saw a larger dog that I thought would be a problem, I would pop with the collar or tense up, and every time he reacted aggressively.

Do you know how hard it was to break the habit??? I had to keep saying to myself over and over, “Loose leash, loose leash, loose leash,” while walking in a mater-of-fact way. He would look, like Carol said, out of curiosity, but just walk on by! I was shocked! If he ever does get that “look” in his eye, rather than pop or tense, I now turn and walk in the opposite direction, very calmly but quickly. Even if he kept on looking, I just kept walking away. As soon as he ignored them, party time! Treats or a tug, or even a bunch of love.

We obviously practiced with leashed dogs, and it is harder when they are loose, “cause you have an unpredictable element, but now this dog could care less about almost all dogs. If I see a dog coming, I ask for his attention and reward, reward, reward. I mark it with “Yes!” and a little party when we are away from the other dog. He was never really DA, just overly excited and feeding off of my signals that made it all worse.

 Quote: Angela Burrell

Is there a way I can save this thread in my user profile so I can always refer to it? Otherwise I'm printing it out!

You can bookmark it....

 Quote:

lift for 2-3 seconds, straight up. only in the video, the dogs he demonstrates with calm down, and my dog doesn't - he escalates

Angella just thought I would point out that if you don't maintain the dog being lifted and just let them down while they are still acting aggressively and when they escalate in that manner (which is not uncommon, being lifted up on a DD has gotten me the same response on a dog that has never had a DD on or been fully choked out with one before) You have to hold him up until he is calm otherwise the correction is ineffective and just makes him more mad and more likely to redirect to you. If you let him down before he calms the lifting for 2-3 seconds acts just like a pop on a prong. If a dog has had a DD collar used before that it has the association of only being let down when calm/choked out then lifting the collar 2-3 seconds is effective.

I do think you have been given great advise otherwise, changing your attitude and energy for him and maintaining a faster pace etc all great things. I just wanted to clear that up about the use of the DD collar. I don't have Ed's DVD, described is the method I use when (under very rare circumstances) I use a DD collar.

I had a serious problem with my dobe when I got her. She was a year old and I don´t know much about her past (exept that she was given up by her previous owners because she didn´t grow up to be a showstopper). She was afraid of other dogs that were not dobermanns. She acted really shy and submissive and with really big hairy dogs she just escaped behind me and barked. At one point she did a AAAAARRRRGGGGGGG! at a stray that ran up to us (my mistake that I didn´t see that coming) and the dog ran away. Since then the behaviour escalated to the point that I had a raging savage that whould not respond to anything I did or offered as soon as she saw another dog 25 meters away. No toy or food did the trick, no leash corrections had any meaning and all I could do was just physically restrain her so she couldn´t go to the other dog (this is why I never want to own a male dobe- I am not sure I can do this with a dog that has +10 kg on him). At the same time she was completely fine to take to dog shows and walk around among other dogs. She could work side-by-side with GSDs and ovcharkas in the obedience class but as soon as she was released under the command, her hackles rose and she became acting out. This was about two years ago. I tried several things from clicker training to shaking and choking and whatever somebody could suggest or I could think of but with no avail...

Then I started to take a thighter hold on exercises for the right pack structure. She has always been an obedient, soft and submissive dog so there was really no need but as I had problems, it had to be from something. Unfortunately I didn´t know about Leerburgs wonderful site at this time. Her behaviour didn´t really change but I think it might have helped another "tool"- ear pinching, to manifest its influence. This was really the only thing that had an effect at this time. I taught her to walk freely on my side (no the obedience heel but just something that kept her on my side) and once she had learned that so well, that in any other situation she was perfect, I started correcting leaving this position with pinching the ear when she saw another dog and tried to lunge. It was terrible for me but it worked. I had long let gone of the idea of trying to make her like other dogs, I just wanted her to be controllable around other dogs and this was what I got. After few weeks I could stop the pinching (thank God) and could switch to collar corrections. Some times I did something similar to flanking- lifting her from under her belly back to the position when she went too far.

She is always on leash in places we could run into other dogs but she has had a couple of incidents where she has had a run up to the other dog (breaking collars, naive people just walking in the public dog pen- we usually leave if anyone else wants to come in but some think that it is always ok to walk your dog up to a strange dog without making sure the other dogs owner is aware of it) and she has never really hurt anyone. She just runs into the other dog, roars and runs away, and if possible, will do that over and over again. When I got pregnant, she started to actually biting the other dogs (I can´t stay between an overly friendly stray giant and my raving dobe but I can´t stay between my dog and a whole pack of those) but not breaking skin. I have seen her really FIGHT and this is totally different- my sisters collie mix attacked her and the struggle part was over in 3 seconds- dobe grabbed the other by the throat and just choked her with tranquility and confidence that was downright spooky. It was a long time ago but I will never forget this...

I have had several dogs before so I was not unfamiliar with my reactions affecting her behaviour and tried to stay as cool and calm as possible. It was not easy and isn´t so even today. But the real progress came once she was under control enough so I could trust her to walk on loose leash past another dog. I pop the leash when she seems to be forgetting herself but as soon as the constant tention was gone, she started to act ALOT better. If I walk on the street and another dog passes us too close (some owners just can´t seem to understand that a huffing dobe with tention in every muscle in her body, could not be the best choise to let your doggy walk up to) and I have to grab her chain and there is even slightest tention, she instantly lunges and starts to roar (not growling, not barking, just some sound I imagine a bear could do). But once she is familiar with the dog, she will act as a normal dog whould. The best way to get her accept another dog, is to bring it in our home- she never acts this way at home.

Today I can walk her on the street with confidence that she is going to take orders even in the presence of an unfamiliar dog (at least until the other one is about 1 m from her). She is still raising hackles if the other dog is too close but this too is decreasing. She will rather leave from the presence of strange dogs rather than try to eat them (so no biting anymore). She huffs up at the sight of another dog but we have even managed to just walk past them without me having to command her to my side or pull on the leash. The patience and straining to be calm and confident has paid off. We still have alot of work to do but it will come in time. I am on my way of having the problem-free walking and jogging companion I have always wanted