Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Anna Anderson ]
#234091 - 03/30/2009 05:11 PM |
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Anna,
Excellent idea! I like what you are suggesting.
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Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Lindsay Janes ]
#234097 - 03/30/2009 05:20 PM |
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Me too!
And this too falls in with my permanent wish to be at least moderately friendly with my neighbors. A neighbor who perceives me (or my dog!) as an enemy is not good for me (or my dog!).
And I forgot: Always keep a log. Cellphone photos of the dog on other people's property, dates of conversations/incidents, and everything else.
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Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#234105 - 03/30/2009 05:52 PM |
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awsome cat like reflexes! your way nice to have calmed down first.
It really frustrates my cats that I have faster reflexes than they do.
First of all - the scene in which you described how you chased off the GSD is 50% hilarious and 50% awesome! I loved it! Nice job.
I can only imagine what the people across the street thought. They were sitting in their open garage at the time.
Thank you, too.
------------
Since everything else will be on the same topic, I won't bother with the multi quotes.
Most of this moot. Today was the first time either my wife or I have seen the neighbors and they were on their dog as soon as it barked towards our older dog. They have a completely fenced yard and haven't done that in the year and half we've lived here, so I take this as them getting the point. I'm a scary mofo when I'm that angry.
But, for the record, I wasn't going to go charging over there to demand things. They've always been nice and if that was what I wanted I wouldn't have kept my mouth shut the other night. My case was going to be more along the lines of, "I don't want to have to defend myself but if I do...". Besides that, they speak very little English.
As far as how I feel about self defense. It's not only my job as my family pack's alpha, it's also my job as man of the house to defend what's ours. "Don't train until you can execute a technique perfectly, train so you can execute perfectly every time." And one of the phrases I live my life by, the Charter of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan.
"Reverence for life is as important as offense and defense in Moo Duk Kwan. Our basic charter charges all members to protect life, even that of an enemy. Developing reverence for nature with emphasis on beauty, speed, and rightness of action are training goals held for by the charter."
Also, http://www.tangsoodoworld.com/reference/reference_ten_articles_of_faith.htm and http://www.tangsoodoworld.com/reference/reference_terminology_concepts.htm
I've been forced to successfully use this art in real world conditions.
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Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Anna Anderson ]
#234111 - 03/30/2009 06:00 PM |
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Steve, I am on this web site to get info on training my GSD pup, meaning I am not an expert....I do, however, have a lot of experience with this type of situation. This is what you do...
First of all DO NOT GET EMOTIONAL! A PERSON WHO'S EMOTIONS ARE OUT OF CONTROL WILL LOSE IN THIS TYPE OF SITUATION! You want to remain in kind of a monotone type of emotion, kind of like the attidude of "I am here to settle this WITHOUT playing games"
Knock on your neighbor's door and say:
_______(neighbor's name) Look, there has been 2 incidents regarding your dog (explain each one). This is has become a safety issue and since your are the owner, I need to know what you are going to do in regards for taking responsibility for your dog. Please, give me an anwser I can feel secure about because right now I am not feeling secure about your dogs behavior.
Let the neighbor talk and give you a solution. If you find he is getting defensive, stop him and say.."I am not here to fight with you, I am here to work out a solution so that I feel my family is safe and we can remain good neighbors".
If he gives you a solution you are happy with, change your emotion to a happy one and thank him, shake his hand and go home.
If he doesn't want to take responsibility and is an ass, then let him know, that for the safety of your family, you will be contacting the proper authorities to register a complaint about the 2 incidents and if anyone gets hurt, from here on out, you will be filing a law suit against his property insurance (still talking in a non-defensive way). Let him know you where hoping it didn't have to this but he is leaving you no choice.
95 percent of the time, if you talk long enough without getting upset and the person understands you are only concerned with resolving the problem and not attacking him, things will work out just fine.
Do not hurt the dog!!!! this is the wrong target. Get a can of pepper spray or something. Your target is the neighbor. I have never had to sue anyone in my life because I have indirectly let the person know that if they didn't come up with a solution for a dangerous situation they were responsible for, they would be paying for it. When someone thinks you are coming after their pocket book, it makes them think twice....the trick is to maintain control of the situation by the way you talk and steer him into wanting to come up with a solution....Good Luck!
I understand that. If I wanted to deal with this in an emotional fashion, I would've done that already.
First, this is the ghetto. Second, their yard is surrounded by a 6' fence. Third, they're Mexican and speak very little English. Fourth, Animal Control is a joke in my county. And Fifth, "it's not the dog's fault" won't pay for medical bills or loss of wages due to injury.
I honestly don't care who's fault it is, if the dog attacks it's going down. Whether that's with a kick, a hand strike, a stick, or a Hydrashok, it will not attack me or my family again. If the owner is incapable of keeping it in his yard, I will not wait until a bite happens for AC to get off their collective butts to do something other than say "keep you dog in your yard".
That said, I'm a trained salesman and know how to work people. I would also appreciate if at least SOMEONE would ask me a question instead of making highly incorrect assumptions about how I was going to handle this situation.
I'll talk to the guy who speaks the most fluent English the next time I see him and see if we can bridge the language barrier. He had trouble offering me some tamales he was selling, so I'm not holding my breathe. What I say needs to be clear, concise, and to the point. Much like this reply.
Connie, I own a rottweiler/pitbull mix. He's been viewed like that for his entire life. I'm way over that.
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Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Scott Garrett ]
#234124 - 03/30/2009 06:42 PM |
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I would also appreciate if at least SOMEONE would ask me a question instead of making highly incorrect assumptions about how I was going to handle this situation.
I didn't read too many incorrect assumptions, maybe just warnings about ways one might handle it that would only end in more confrontation - sadly, too many of us have experience with maybe saying the WRONG things... and regretting it. Can't hurt to be reminded how important calm, civil conversation can be...
I guess my question is what type of relationship do you value with your neighbors...
As far as questions go, regardless of any interpretations of your plan, this is the most important. Either you care about making it work, or you don't - and there is actually no right answer, but you need to be resolute. Some of us have complete jerks for neighbors and it honest to goodness isn't worth our time to continually "play nice" to deaf ears - civil maybe, but only so we don't implicate ourSELVES in anything. I have SOO been there, done that, and am STILL regretting the effort I wasted hoping to someday make a certifiably insane woman "see the light"...
It can be hard to suppress anger after an encounter like this that leaves you full of adrenalin, but I like your zen mindset about only using force (physical AND verbal) as a last resort. It sounds like your neighbors, english as a second language or not, got the idea though, so they should be respected for not being total asses and ignoring the situation all together...
Good luck keeping everyone safe from here on out - from the sounds of it, I'd feel more than secure with you as a family bodyguard!
~Natalya
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Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Scott Garrett ]
#234125 - 03/30/2009 06:47 PM |
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Well Steve ....when you posted this, you said that you kept your month shut after the incident....I don't know about everyone else, but I took this as meaning your neighbor spoke English! You know, someone you could talk to and he would understand. Not knowing he hardly spoke English kind of sheds a different light on how one would handle this...
I still disagree that you need to hurt your neighbor's dog...This is your neighbor's dog not some stray! Why not pepper spray or something along those lines if needed?
And in response to who is going to pay the bills if someone got hurt....their homeowner's policy (or if they are renters, the owner's policy) will cover it, usually up to $500,000.00 depending on the policy.....but hopefully they are handling the situation on their own as we speak and no one will ever get hurt!
Is the white GSD puppy in your picture the dog that was out playing in the front?.....He is very cute!
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Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Anna Anderson ]
#234127 - 03/30/2009 06:55 PM |
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Sorry Scott, got your name wrong again!
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Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Anna Anderson ]
#234146 - 03/30/2009 09:14 PM |
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. . .I'm 6'5", 210lbs., wear baggy clothing, and am a generally imposing figure. I made the loudest and most guttural noise I could make while charging with my hands out and above shoulder level, to make myself even bigger. . .
Hmmm, make a lot of sales that way, do ya'?
A ghetto in Northern CA? No way!
I was following this thread as it developed and really liked Anna's approach. . . til I got to the last third of it. My preferred style is a non-confrontational approach and I never commit to what I intend to do "next time." Like others have said, I want to hear how the other party intends to fix the problem. Here, it's a simple no-brainer to control the dog for a minute while opening/closing a gate. If they don't offer anything on their part or won't admit they even have any problem, I'll file that away and use that info the next time I need to decide how to handle another future problem in the future.
But, as in this particular case, regardless of how much effort someone may put into controlling their dog, I'm with Scott - I'm gonna step up and protect my family members even if an "innocent" dog has to get hurt due to an HUA owner.
And, like Connie said, document the incident while it's still fresh. Go visit the neighbors across the street for an informal conversation with them as to what they saw happen.
Mike
Suppose you were an idiot.
Suppose you were a member of Congress.
But I repeat myself.
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Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Mike Armstrong ]
#234149 - 03/30/2009 09:25 PM |
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It can be hard to suppress anger after an encounter like this that leaves you full of adrenalin, but I like your zen mindset about only using force (physical AND verbal) as a last resort. It sounds like your neighbors, english as a second language or not, got the idea though, so they should be respected for not being total asses and ignoring the situation all together...
Good luck keeping everyone safe from here on out - from the sounds of it, I'd feel more than secure with you as a family bodyguard!
~Natalya
Thank you. I made a tremendous number of mistakes in my younger days and that's a large part of why I just walk away unless it's self defense. I know exactly how much damage I can do if something escalates.
If there's one thing about living in the ghetto it's that people tend to keep to themselves.
Well Steve.....when you posted this, you said that you kept your month shut after the incident....I don't know about everyone else, but I took this as meaning your neighbor spoke English! You know, someone you could talk to and he would understand. Not knowing he hardly spoke English kind of sheds a different light on how one would handle this...
I still disagree that you need to hurt your neighbor's dog...This is your neighbor's dog not some stray! Why not pepper spray or something along those lines if needed?
And in response to who is going to pay the bills if someone got hurt....their homeowner's policy (or if they are renters, the owner's policy) will cover it, usually up to $500,000.00 depending on the policy.....but hopefully they are handling the situation on their own as we speak and no one will ever get hurt!
Is the white GSD puppy in your picture the dog that was out playing in the front?.....He is very cute!
I know enough Spanglish to have gotten my point across.
I don't need to hurt anything and I'd honestly prefer not to. But, if my neighbor came over here acting aggressive I'd knock him on his head, too. We can hopefully agree to disagree here.
They appear to be handling the situation, so hopefully nothing further will need to be done or said. I don't count on their slumlord to have much in the way of insurance.
And yes ma'am, that's the pup. Thank you, very much. He's a sweetie.
Here are some pic's we took of him on Friday afternoon. The bush in the first picture is where the GSD from next door appeared from behind.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/pets/duke054.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/pets/duke056.jpg
. . .I'm 6'5", 210lbs., wear baggy clothing, and am a generally imposing figure. I made the loudest and most guttural noise I could make while charging with my hands out and above shoulder level, to make myself even bigger. . .
Hmmm, make a lot of sales that way, do ya'?
A ghetto in Northern CA? No way!
I was following this thread as it developed and really liked Anna's approach. . . til I got to the last third of it. My preferred style is a non-confrontational approach and I never commit to what I intend to do "next time." Like others have said, I want to hear how the other party intends to fix the problem. Here, it's a simple no-brainer to control the dog for a minute while opening/closing a gate. If they don't offer anything on their part or won't admit they even have any problem, I'll file that away and use that info the next time I need to decide how to handle another future problem in the future.
But, as in this particular case, regardless of how much effort someone may put into controlling their dog, I'm with Scott - I'm gonna step up and protect my family members even if an "innocent" dog has to get hurt due to an HUA owner.
And, like Connie said, document the incident while it's still fresh. Go visit the neighbors across the street for an informal conversation with them as to what they saw happen.
Mike
Hahaha. Good call. I clean up nicely and actually am quite a good salesman. My mom says I was the reincarnation of Tom Sawyer when I was a kid. If this says anything, the cops came over looking for a past tenant and while I was standing on the front steps talking to them about it one of them asked, "so, know any Mexicans or hang out with any Mexican gangbangers?" I'm like, pasty Northern European white so I just laughed and said "nope".
I live very near Sacramentoes, so not quite forests and mountains yet.
I never did call AC today, but I'll go ahead and do it tomorrow.
I just want to take a second to thank all of your for taking your time to reply. I might seem like I'm being resistant, but I am taking it all in.
edit:
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. He didn't seem to care at all about walking past their property today so I think we're fine on the dog aggressive front.
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Re: Had to save my pup!
[Re: Scott Garrett ]
#234161 - 03/31/2009 12:56 AM |
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Scott, I don't mind you hitting your neighbor in the head, he deserves it more than the poor dog!
I love these pictures, how old is your pup? Looks a lot like mine. Funny, I got my White GSD pup January 5th when she was a little over 9 weeks old from a breeder right below Fresno. Sort of near where you live. We drove all the way up there from Southern CA and came right back with her. We got a White GSD so it would not remind me of my black and tan GSD we lost over 3 years ago....too much griefing when I think of her....Anna
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