Steven Melamut wrote 03/30/2009 08:35 AM Mounting #233938 - 03/30/2009 08:35 AM
Steven Melamut Webboard User Reg: 03-16-2009 Posts: 2 Loc: NC Offline	We have a two year old fixed male Poodle (76 lbs) and a 10 month fixed male Poodle (60 lbs). The puppy is clearly dominant. He has some aggression issues that we have been working out successfully. He has some fear aggression of other dogs when we are walking in the dark and sometimes reacts poorly to correction with a prong collar. Does fine with the dominant dog collar. The two dogs get along great except when the puppy decides he wants to mount the older the dog. The older dog puts up with it for a while, then he hides in a crate or under my legs. On a bad day we hear a lot of barking, although it does not get to a real dog fight. I have seen conflicting advice on the web. Some folks say let them settle it themselves, others say to break it up. I lean towards breaking it up since I want these dogs to coexist long term. They are not left together when we are not home: the puppy is crated and the older dog has the run of the house.
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Jennifer Mullen wrote 03/30/2009 08:50 AM Re: Mounting [Re: Steven Melamut ] #233941 - 03/30/2009 08:50 AM
Jennifer Mullen Webboard User Reg: 08-16-2007 Posts: 2365 Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Offline	If you can't, at this point, trust the puppy not to mount (and you can't based on your post) the older dog, than keep the puppy tethered in the house so that he cannot do so. By allowing the situation as is, your puppy is learning bad manners, bothering and being rude to your older dog, and you're also, IMO, teaching both dogs that rather than look to you as the pack leader to settle things and control social structure and behaviour, they should do so themselves. You can teach your puppy not to mount, especially given that he's fixed. Teagan!
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Wendy Lefebvre wrote 03/30/2009 09:19 AM Re: Mounting [Re: Steven Melamut ] #233946 - 03/30/2009 09:19 AM
Wendy Lefebvre Webboard User Reg: 12-08-2005 Posts: 1271 Loc: Stoney Creek , Ontario, Canada Offline	Quote: Steven Melamut The two dogs get along great except when the puppy decides he wants to mount the older the dog. The older dog puts up with it for a while, then he hides in a crate or under my legs. On a bad day we hear a lot of barking, although it does not get to a real dog fight. From that statement are you saying that you ALLOW the younger dog to mount the older dog and don't stop it but instead let it happen until the older dog can't take it anymore? And when you say you HEAR alot of barking, does that mean you are in a different room and hear a commotion? Not only is that unfair to your older dog, but it's also sending mixed messages to the younger dog about his position in the pack if you are in the room and allow it to happen. Keep the younger dog tethered to you and stop him even before he gets his front legs off the ground! When you say he re-acts poorly to a correction with the prong what do you mean? Does he get more aggressive? DO NOT LET THEM SETTLE THIS THEMSELVES!!!! It's your job to settle things, not them! You shouldn't have to break anything up! Pay close attention to the dogs and you will be able to see the signs that it's going to escalate and stop them right there! Don't complain....TRAIN!!!
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Natalya Zahn wrote 03/30/2009 09:33 AM Re: Mounting [Re: Jennifer Mullen ] #233948 - 03/30/2009 09:33 AM
Natalya Zahn Webboard User Reg: 12-22-2006 Posts: 1824 Loc: Cambridge, MA Offline	Quote: Jennifer Mullen keep the puppy tethered in the house... By allowing the situation as is, your puppy is learning bad manners, bothering and being rude to your older dog, and you're also, IMO, teaching both dogs that rather than look to you as the pack leader to settle things and control social structure and behaviour, they should do so themselves. Ditto. It's highly unfair to your older dog to let the young one harass him like this, and it could very easily lead to a proper fight. The pup is also learning poor behavior that could get him in trouble with other dogs, if he is ever exposed to dogs other than his house mate - mounting is exceptionally rude and if he ever tried it on a more dominant dog, it could get ugly. Mounting is completely controllable - through training the pup that such behavior is NOT acceptable, and separation via crate or tether. Tethering is a useful all around tool that will also help with general structure for this pup, and it'll increase a bond between he and you that really affirms your leadership. ~Natalya
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Steven Melamut wrote 03/30/2009 10:51 AM Re: Mounting [Re: Natalya Zahn ] #233965 - 03/30/2009 10:51 AM
Steven Melamut Webboard User Reg: 03-16-2009 Posts: 2 Loc: NC Offline	Thank you. You just verified what I thought. These are my first dogs, so I am learning as I go along. My wife had dogs years ago, but they were outside dogs in the country and her father and grandfather handled all of the problems. The problem is that I get a lot of bad advice including some found on the Internet. I am finding that this site is the one place that I find information that works. Thanks again.
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Jennifer Mullen wrote 03/30/2009 10:55 AM Re: Mounting [Re: Steven Melamut ] #233966 - 03/30/2009 10:55 AM
Jennifer Mullen Webboard User Reg: 08-16-2007 Posts: 2365 Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Offline	You'll get tonnes of great info and help here (from people way smarter than me). I do know what you're going through - my almost-year old pup is unneutered and I'd thought we'd dealt with the humping, but he's back to trying it with my female (fixed) again when he gets excited. Since she's also the top dog, I'm never sure if it's a challenge thing or a bow-chicka-wow-wow thing, but regardless, I don't allow it. He'll relearn not to do, and your guy will learn as well Teagan!
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Natalya Zahn wrote 03/30/2009 11:29 AM Re: Mounting [Re: Steven Melamut ] #233979 - 03/30/2009 11:29 AM
Natalya Zahn Webboard User Reg: 12-22-2006 Posts: 1824 Loc: Cambridge, MA Offline	Quote: Steven Melamut The problem is that I get a lot of bad advice including some found on the Internet. I am finding that this site is the one place that I find information that works. As with a lot of things, it's truly stunning how much dangerous misinformation is out there - but you're right, Leerburg is a gold mine of info on canine behavior and practical training. I wish I had stumbled on it sooner myself (could have saved myself a LOT of headaches)! Glad to have you on board. ~Natalya
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Aaron Myracle wrote 03/30/2009 11:38 AM Re: Mounting [Re: Natalya Zahn ] #233983 - 03/30/2009 11:38 AM
Aaron Myracle Webboard User Reg: 06-06-2008 Posts: 5062 Loc: WA, USA Offline	I love the "settle it themselves" crowd. Clearly, they've never seen dogs blinded or killed in a dog fight. Standard Poodles have impressive mouths, and I can only imagine how much damage they would inflict on each other if a true fight broke out. They should be absolutely seperated unless you are able to devote your full attention to supervision. At the very first sign that the pup is going to act stupid, put him up.
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Nora Ferrell wrote 03/30/2009 02:07 PM Re: Mounting [Re: Aaron Myracle ] #234039 - 03/30/2009 02:07 PM
Nora Ferrell Webboard User Reg: 02-10-2008 Posts: 727 Loc: Kentucky Offline	Ditto to Alyssa and all the above. If you've ever seen a dog with his eyeball rolling down his cheek from a simple misunderstanding about food (and they don't have to be as big or aggressive as a poodle)you will make sure all dogs know the rules. Tethering is the single BEST thing you can do with your dog. Search for tethering posts and you will indeed find a 'gold mine'.
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