Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Marcia Blum

Okay, so now you have me freaking out. I was hoping a chicken base of RMB (whole fryers cut up and given over the week) would be great... Can you vary on the ground muscle meat and be ok?

The variety can be provided in the muscle meat. Lots of people use poultry for the RMB base of their raw diet. So the answer to your question is yes.

Poultry bones are the only RMB I feed, with no problems - the protein variety in Oscar's diet comes from a variety of muscle and organ meat sources instead (turkey, pig, cow, lamb, rabbit, sardine - sometimes rarities like elk or llama). My dog is an aggressive chewer and I can't trust him with the bones from most mammals (he gets occasional whole rabbits, but they're pricey here, so maybe only 2-4 times a year). The chicken backs are by far the cheapest of my ingredients, but hunting for deals and stocking up when you see them can be really economical. Also, Marcia, you may find much better prices if you seek out sources that will sell you just the backs in bulk - even cheap whole birds at the grocery store look expensive compared to 65 cents/lb and under (that's what we pay, and I know others do even better).

~Natalya

So I guess to bring this back round to topic what can you do for those vets other than convince them that you know what they heck you're doing? Reality is that they have to deal with some people who probably shouldn't own a pet rock let alone a dog and need to cya to keep themselves in business.

I know in my own business I can't tell someone to cut out matts on their own dog because if they do it incorrectly on my prompting which results in severe injury to their pet because I'm a "professional" I leave myself open to litigation. It's stupid but it's true.

The folks enjoying this forum are NOT the average dog owner. Average people are super busy, kids live on fast food and soda, it's hard to think owners will do a great job shopping for the dog when they don't have time to do a good job feeding themselves. Folks do get stuck feeding one thing like hamburger, or raw liver for cats. Some dogs live on powered milk replacer. I mean, quality kibble is better than that. I think a veterinarian who knew how committed and educated forum members are would have no problem with "raw".
As far as making money selling dog food, unless things have really changed, it was never much of a money maker in our small mixed practice (which was mostly farm animals). Personally, I think raw is a great idea.

I am feeding raw off and on myself. Not 100%. Had a scary experience with chicken thighs and backed off a little.
I also believe that the bagged diets used to be better, safer, when all the ingredients came from the USA. On the other hand, I remember the rendering works picking up the clinics freezer full of euthanized dogs and cats which were processed and sold to dog food manufacturers (that is a fact). They stopped that in the early 90s.

So far, I have been lucky to find whole fryers on sale at Safeway for 69 cents per pound and Costco has them for 99 cents per pound regularly. I am working on a bulk chix backs source. Redbird farms processing is near my house....The butchers and Whole Foods will sell backs, upon request, but not under $1 per pound (seems outrageous). Leg quarters are on sale alot. So, chicken is a good deal so far. The real butchers and meat processors are north of here, nearer to the ranches - about an hour away and in the country. That's where I have a whole lamb butchered every year. I will have to plan ahead...

My vet made the "twinkie comment". When he asked about diet, I told him I was trying raw, I think I must have also commented on how she liked it. He replied, "Well, I like Twinkies, but that doesn't mean I should eat them all the time."

He didn't really discourage me when I said that I was just giving this a go to see if I could better control her weight and pudding pooh that she was having on kibble and that I was keeping a close eye on her.

Why one would even care? It's not like you go to the vet to get nutritional advice. I am going to pick a new vet based on equipment, staff and connectivity available. In human medicine you don't expect your family physician to do life-saving surgery on you AND give you wellness advice. Animals are property and I can deal with them in a way I see fit. If I decide to feed them raw I don't see how a vet could prevent that.

If my vet had an opinion on my car I'd agree with you. I rely on vets to do things and diagnose stuff I can't do or lack the experience in understanding. In order for this to happen effectively and efficiently I need to be able to present a complete diagnostic picture to my vet which includes diet, living conditions, and breeding info. Hiding this from a vet IMO shoots yourself in the foot when you have a real problem later.

Hiding? Of course not. It's counterproductive.

 Quote: Ana Kozlowsky

Why one would even care? It's not like you go to the vet to get nutritional advice. I am going to pick a new vet based on equipment, staff and connectivity available. In human medicine you don't expect your family physician to do life-saving surgery on you AND give you wellness advice. Animals are property and I can deal with them in a way I see fit. If I decide to feed them raw I don't see how a vet could prevent that.

For me, I wanted to find a vet who wouldn't 'blame' things on the diet I was feeding. And that happens all the time when you tell vets you feed raw! It is hard to work with a vet when it comes to diagnosing problems if they believe you are causing it with food!

I guess I am really lucky I have the vet I do. She is supportive of the raw diet and alternative medicines.

She comments on the dogs' teeth each time she sees them and tells me she can tell they are on raw food. My 9 year old Shyner has perfectly clean teeth, and we owe it to the bones she gets to crunch each night with her dinner.

Jodi also knows my stance on most medicines, and will help me look for alternatives. She is actually the one who told me about Corn Silk for incontinence, and Sam E for liver issues, among many other things. If we have a differing opinion (which is very rare) we talk it out and find which way will be best for the dogs.

She has NEVER scoffed at the way I care for my dogs. She doesn't push vaccines because she knows how I feel about them. I drive an hour to get to her, but it's well worth it. I have NO idea what I will do if she ever decides to retire....

Just my experience with a wonderful and supportive vet. (Dr. Jodi Bohl at Eau Claire Animal Hospital, Eau Claire, WI)

--Kelly