Quote: cassie timm

... There is allergy testing. It is expensive about $300, and most vets will recommend you do allergy shots if they are seasonal. Here is the link incase you may be interseted http://www.nelcovet.com/

I have to jump in here and say something about that link (not about you, Cassie... about the site ). It's the misleading statement about "serum allergy testing" for allergen identification, "including foods." There is NO reliable blood test (neither ELISA nor RAST) to identify food allergies in dogs. None. There is no authoritative source that will agree with that statement about serum allergy testing for food allergens in dogs, regardless of how many non-derm vets suggest the RAST and ELISA tests for it. (This has been covered here in such detail and with so many citations to back it up that unless someone wants links to those discussions, we can probably set it aside for now.)

But that's a big misstatement. So even though a food allergy is probably extremely low on the likely list in this case, I'd have serious doubts about relying on information from that source.

"Demodex ... should be ruled out." Yes, I agree.

QUESTIONS:

Megan, what has been done besides Benadryl and Revolution?

Also, how recent was the last white-sheet flea test? (Brushing works, too.)

Please look inside the ears and see if they are pale pink and relatively debris-free or inflamed and/or with black or gray debris or slime. And sniff. How do they smell?

Is there any face itching? Does the dog rub the face on carpeting or furniture (or maybe appear to be pushing a dog bed around with the face ... )?

Is there involvement elsewhere on the head? How about the top of the head and the eye and muzzle areas?

How bad are the forelegs?

Is there (or was there) any raggedy edge to the ear leather?

Any bumps inside ear flaps?

A skin scraping is not "very expensive." A biopsy is. (Or maybe this comment was made only in regard to the sarcoptic mange possibility. Demodex is diagnosed with a scraping taken where the alopecia is; demodex mites are easy to see under the 'scope, and seeing a lot of them, along with the alopecia, usually makes for a straightforward diagnosis. This is unlike sarcoptic mange, which can take a lot of negative scrapings and for which a vet often will simply treat.)

 Quote: cassie timm

What treatment was done for the (possible) mange and how long was it done for?

Ditto. Was the Revolution the answer to that question? As Cassie said, this has nothing to do with demodex -- neither juvenile nor adult-onset.

Bleeding, open skin -- this is serious because (aside from quality of life issues) this is an open door to infection of both bacteria and malassezia ... regardless of the primary cause. That is, this needs to be diagnosed. Even though juvenile localized demodex is often (even usually) self-limiting, IMO the skin condition you describe needs to be treated before there are secondary problems. (Pictures will help us, though.)


Also, if it was juvenile demodex, I would want to know whether it was becoming generalized (which is more serious). It can be pruritic or not, so the bad itchiness doesn't really rule it out.

I'm wandering a bit because there is so little information and a little of it (like "very expensive" skin scrapings) sounds kind of odd.

But it will help to answer all the questions in this post. It might also help to link us to a couple of Photobucket-type closeups.

Of course I don't mean we can diagnose, but if might help us to provide you with some suggestions and questions for a vet visit.

I'm sorry you are dealing with a seriously itchy dog. I know what you mean about how sad it is to watch.

 Quote: Cassie Timm

.... possibly add in fish oils, and vitiam C if they are not already added. I would also wipe her down daily with a damp towel to rid any allergens. Make sure to wipe down the places she itches.

The pup isn't on fish oil now? This is definitely an immediate step, IMO.

What is the dog's weight?

Well the vet only suggested sarcoptic mange. Also, she is no longer loosing hair, just getting bumps/sores from scratching.

If it's an allergy, are there easy ways to manage it besides shots?

There is no easy answer to allergies.

But yes, there are absolutely many steps to take short of the intradermal testing followed by individualized immunotherapy (shots).

Have you by chance read any of the atopy threads here? (I can avoid reinventing the wheel.)

However, at this age, I would probably be making a vet appointment and discussing the apparent Revolution/mites failure and what she thinks about external parasites (and demodex). But I can probably say that with more oomph after you give us the answers to the questions in my post.

Oops sorry the above post was posted before I refreshed the page to see all these questions

Let me give you guys a little background info. At about 11 weeks she broke out in some sort of skin condition which consisted of tiny red bumps (grain of rice size) on her abdomen & crusting on her upper back legs which is when I took her to the vet. The vet said it's either sarcoptic mange (his money was on the mange) or dermatitis. She was given Revolution at this time (3 weeks ago) and Cephalexin (250 mg) which seemed to get rid of the bumps but nothing got rid of the itching. She's now 14 weeks and 20lbs.

I just did the flea-test this morning about 6 hours ago & she came up clean.

Her ears are debris free but do look slightly inflamed & kind of splotchy toward the inside-base (there is probably a better term for this haha). Now that I study them, there are tiny pimple like bumps toward the bottom too. They smell like sort of like sawdust, but my olfactory senses aren't the best. The outside is fine & has never been crusty or anything.

She recently started face itching, but not rubbing them on anything yet, just scratching with hind legs (just below ears by cheeks). Nothing on the muzzle & eyes are clear.

She does chew her forelegs a bit, not enough to lose hair though.

Yes honestly the vet said "skin scrapings" are expensive, he didn't name a price. Although I'm not a huge fan of this vet, I could easily change. Any ideas on what these normally cost so i can clear it with a new vet?

no she's not on fish oil, how much would you suggest?

Hope this cleared up a little bit of info, I'll post pictures as soon as I can! Sorry for all the questions ha. Please feel free to ask me more questions.

14 weeks seems so young to have inhalant allergies, but I suppose it could be possible.

Just curious, Megan do you know at what age your pup was given it's first round of vaccinations? ( this is more my curiosity than anything.)

I second the use of salmon oil for it's anti-inflammatory benefits.
It would be the first thing I would get for this dog as soon as possible.
I have an atopic dog and have seen the tremendous benefits it has.

Megan, one thing that would be a big help to you is to search through the many threads about itchy dogs here at LB.
You will learn a ton from what many of us have gone through and also what can be done for how to treat your pup.

If it comes to a point where you still have a very itchy dog and have no answers. I would highly recommend you seek the expertise of a Derm Vet. It will save you money in the long run to seek out this specialty vet because they have vast amounts of knowledge specifically about these things and they will know just how to help your pup.

I just spoke today with someone who has been to 6 different GP Vets and still has no answers, she has wasted a ton of money and still has no idea what is wrong with her dog. I told her the same thing about seeking the advice of a Derm Vet.
Just a word of advice, don't wait too long before getting the right help, as Connie said, a dog with open and bleeding skin is a dog that has to be miserable, and can leave the pup very vulnerable to both bacterias and yeast infections.

Keep us posted on the pups progress.

ETA: For the salmon oil, buy a good quality like Grizzly or Bravo wild salmon oil and start by dosing what the directions say for the pups weight.
You can break up the dosage with each meal.

I would also add that it is easier to buy the salmon oil in the pump for dosing rather than the gel caps. In my case, I am giving therapeutic doses, so it is just much easier to dispense than opening numerous gel caps.

http://leerburg.com/47.htm

Hi Megan,
I live in So. Ca also, and I have an allergy dog that I've been going to a derma vet with for the last 4 years - she is AWESOME! You don't have to go to an derma vet for the purpose of allergy testing. You can just go for an evaluation, and believe me, they know their stuff! They are soooo much more experienced with skin than a regular vet, that they can many times just look at the dog and know what the problem probably is. I would go do that in a heartbeat as opposed to spending several trips worth of money to a regular vet since this dog seems so miserable.

If you want to send me a PM (personal message in case you've never done it!), I will give you the info on the derma vet.

Click on the pictures to enlarge, it may be easier to see the detail. Flikr muted the reds/pinks a little, it looks more red/pink in reality.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63307851@N07/5883006089/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63307851@N07/5883568268/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63307851@N07/5883566450/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63307851@N07/5883000431/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63307851@N07/5883561980/in/photostream/

IMO it doesn't look that bad, but she's constantly itching, so it must be bad!

Thanks for the info Joyce, I'll def look into the salmon oil! I'm sorry for those of you to have to deal with this too, poor dogs.

Lori, I'll be sending you a PM shortly

Joyce,

Her first round was at 6 weeks. Early, I know. Didn't know the breeder did that until after the fact...live and learn.