I forgot the statistics but if I remember correctly the SV registers far more show lines then working lines each year.

There is a vast difference between the German Working Line and the German Show Line.

Don't forget, that the German Show Line is just about as atrocious looking as the American Show Line.

There are plenty of working line dogs that make excellent house dogs. My bitch is working line through and through and she has a beautiful off switch. She brings it on the Schutzhund field, but she's perfectly happy to settle with a knuckle bone for a few hours.

 Quote: jim johnson

I was hoping the Germans would not bend to the show influence. Character of the German Shepherd Dog is so important and it has eroded in the American bred...hopefully it wont in the German show lines.

Jim, that ship has long sailed! The German show lines are still better then the Amercian show lines for temperment but nowhere near what a good working line dog has to offer.
Still lots of differences in the working lines.
Both my working line GSDs are WG over Czech but they are different as night and day.
The older one (SchIII) is fantastic with the grandkids and is naturally gentle and easy going when playing with them. They can hold a stick to throw and he'll patiently wait, bring it back and drop it to be thrown again. An adult tries the same thing and it WILL get taken away if said adult doesn't toss it quickly. Myself being the exception of course.
The younger dog loves the kids but just hasn't figured out that "bowling for babies" isn't on the game board. He has no spacial awareness when he plays and that means the BBQ pit, the fence, the patio chairs and the occasional human in the way of a good run around the yard. He bounces into anything that moves or is nailed down. Equal opportunity crash dummy! He's ran full bore into the wife's car in the drive way. He doesn't care! Acts like one of those crazy assed mals.
He is usually put in the kennel when they come over.

Disclaimer: Most of the info I am sharing below is not first hand information. Some of it is hear say from an Eastern european dog judge some of it is what I have read.


Once the path of form over function has been selected, the breed is doomed. It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when. If I was the judge, I will give a three legged dog with a torn ear the Seiger Title as long as it can out perform the most perfect looking one. So German lines are doomed too, it is just a matter of time.


There are many original working Sheep dog German shepherds that are being bred in Germany, that have the smartness of a Border Collie and the attitude of a GSD. But they dont make it into the Show line because of some little thing. (No roached back, or very slight teeth misalignment, Does not resemble a polar bear etc). Apparently , these are extremely good dogs that have phenomenal stamina. They work for hours and hours. Also they have what is called a "dry grip" which means they don't clamp down and sink their teeth in to hurt/draw blood. Apparently this is a genetic thing. Also these dogs tend to be way smaller than the ones in the ring.

The way in which these dogs work, he said is 95% genetic and 5% training. These sheep herders will pick dogs that "love sheep". These dogs instinctively know that The pack structure is Herder>>>Dog>>>>>>>>>Sheep.

He said that he has seen these dogs working and there will be a distraction , such as a village boy passing by, smell some food on the ground, look at some weird stuff etc. and the dog will casually attend to the distraction, but will immediately come back to it's duties on it's own. He said one can't train a dog to do that. The dog has to "love sheep".




Even though 99% of German imports (atleast to India) have some sort of working title on them, I dont think they can really do any meaningful work. I think only titled GSDs can be bred in germany. So, German GSDs have retained a bit of working ability ( I am guessing this).

I think of polo players (atleast in India) when I see German titled GSDs. If you have to play polo in India, you got to be super rich, you got to own your own horse and polo ground etc. So a polo winner is just a champion among those dudes who were lucky enough to be born into wealth. It does not mean that they have the best polo playing potential in the world. The German GSDs are like that they are the best of the group of dogs that have a roached back, a certain shape to their face, a certain height etc etc.

I have seen at least 3 imports in my city, and all of them get pooped out after playing for 5 minutes. They are just too big for the heat and humidity. So it really does't matter how good their "brains are wired to make them want to work", their bodies just don't cooperate.

 Quote: Ramachandran Subramanian

Once the path of form over function has been selected, the breed is doomed.

This really sums up, IMO, the sad fate of so many dog breeds, especially when it comes to the conformation show ring.

Are you talking German showline or working line that's being imported?

I am talking about German show lines that are being imported into India. I understand that even the german show lines need to have working titles. So on paper they have working abilities.

Ram, your previous post is so very interesting. I really like the way you articulated that, all of it.

Your rich polo player analogy blew me away as I’ve often thought a lot along those lines. A little more sedately in my case in that even though my Gramma didn’t have her own cooking show, I know she was the best cook in the world (my judgment, subjective I know but everyone that met her can’t be wrong).

I have been desperately trying to search out the lines of my shepherd these last couple of weeks (not sure why). The original owner had no interest in his papers and the breeders have since moved. I’m told there is another guy around this area that has one of this litter but it’s a matter of finding him. I don’t have any names only that 1000.00 was exchanged for him as an 8 week old pup and she was told he was a purebred.

Raised solely in a small back yard with little exposure to the outside world and other things I won’t get into, created a few issues for this highly driven dog. Many of which we’ve worked through. He’s was judged and labeled early in his rehab and I’m not sure we’ll ever get past that if it’s a requirement that I’m totally open about his past actions.

But this boy can work and doesn’t slow down in the heat. Two marker sessions and he was riding on the back of a jet ski with me this summer. When we got off, he took a position in front of it and felt it was his job not to let anyone near it. I quickly told him different. It’s the same with our property though; this boy is guard dog central.

And I’m not going to go so far as to say he’s social in public, but you leave him alone and he perfectly willing to allow life to go on around him, in the most chaotic of places (a rodeo, music fest in the park, crowded beach).

These are just my observations and his life with me. Can this ever be judged or will his full potential ever really be brought out. I don’t think he will get that chance because as your judge buddy says, he didn’t make the cut according to sport standards that have been set (and for good reason, I hope).

Raw, natural instincts are an incredible thing. His compassionate ways and extraordinary athleticism have me awe every day. My unpapered, untitled, dedicated, competent, diverse, slightly sharp (well maybe a lot – depending on the circumstances) companion has taught me that I will never be without a German Shepherd ever again.

Up to snuff on the judged standards, perhaps not. But from what I’m seeing said here and what I totally believe in my heart is that these standards aren’t truly reflective of the capacity of some of the incredible specimens, of this breed, that are out there.

Yes, I’m totally biased and yes, this is just my humble, unprofessional opinion and experience with one of the loves of my life. A little off topic but we’ll just call him my “Canadian” German Shepherd until I learn otherwise.

 Quote: Ramachandran Subramanian

I am talking about German show lines that are being imported into India. I understand that even the german show lines need to have working titles. So on paper they have working abilities.

No, not always. I've seen several imported show lines that are titled that I swear have never seen a sleeve before.

They do have to have titles in Germany but I think the trial they go to is a lot different then the ones I attend in this country. From what I understand a lot of them are held at midnight in the clubhouse.

Not sure how significant it is but I keep going back to sable is the dominant color for German Shepherds and when was the last time you saw a sable working line? In my mind that does show what the crux was for generations of breeding.

My observations are generalities only and I don't mean to insult anyone. I have seen some very nice show lines that I would feed and I think in the states at least there is a core group of show line breeders that is really trying to bring back some of the working ability.