Dave, you might want to look at "Ethical Guidelines for Breeders" (CKC). You will see it outlines breeders' responsibilities.

Oh my, lots of great stuff and an interesting PM.

I do feel compelled to say my journey into mastiffs started long before getting our girls,
and wow, I got lucky with a great mentor, before we got our girls -hours of talking once a week, I was given a list at the end of each conversation to find answers to......

Am I an expert..no... do I have experience breeding...nothing by doing... but evey one starts some where, hopefully this time next year I'm bragging about my bis pups

 Quote: tracey holden

...the first thing I checked out was the health stats and the temperaments, longevity, inherited diseases etc, the other really important thing for me was the 'whole life' commitment from the breeder,.....the breeders had a clause about the dog being returned .......
....crucial too, is the promise from the breeder that they will always be at the end of the phone to offer support and guidance; establishing a relationship based on trust and honesty with the owner reassures them you have always got the welfare of the pup at the front of your mind.

All and any information pertinent to the breed is what the serious owner is looking for, and in turn, what YOU are looking for in the new owner......and the gallons of drool....... Look forward to hearing how things develop, love the mastiffs

I guess I really wanted to peak enough interest for potential owners to call,

It is much easier to figure out what a breeder really knows when they talk than what they copy onto their site

and to talk to potential buyers, its easy to fill out a puppy questionair to look great

 Quote: Lisabet Measures

Ditto on Tracey's comments about what she was looking for in a breeder! ......... prepared to wait months for the right pup.

We had a long agreement we signed, it laid down all the requirements on both sides and included the issue of re-homing should it ever arise, (ha, no chance with us!)

develop the breed and her bloodline so there was usually only one litter a year.

Good luck!

Oh ya, I will run people through the wringer, again thanks for the tips,

 Quote: steve strom

1. We only breed when we want a puppy. Great. What do you know about Mastiffs that makes me want to take your word and trust you as the breeder of my next dog?

2. World Class Breedings? By what standard or who's opinion beside yours? Why are these outstanding boys outstanding and why are they a good match for your girls?

3.Pedigree. Some of the best line's in the world. If your going to sell them based on this, are the names in the pedigree dogs that Mastiff folks instantly recognise? People know what these dogs have produced and are producing?

4. Training. Back to you as the breeder who's knowledge I'm considering paying for. Have you done anything in the venues listed? Other then awesome companion and some weight pulling on your property?

I don't see anything on your website that would earn my trust and my money.

..... I would change your website's basic message to more general info on your dogs and how enjoyable they are and less on the breeding side of it, unless some of the things I picked apart on you were just left out as you put it together.

No I do not take it personal, I've been waiting to be called a POMPOUS Ass, so no, you gently made very valid points

#1 I think talking with me would better answer that, some one who would buy cause the site was great, and not endevor to talk with me won't get my pup, I can admit I will always be learning
#2the boys I've reserched .. the one for Delilah is from highly desired lines from scotland outcrossed with lines like delilah
Bridget is with a boy from Greinger back to similar lines, the mixing of lines is tricky in mastiffs

#3 yes, I have not talked to a breeder from here to texas that does not recognise these lines ( lots of other good ones of course out there, lots not)
#4 no, I'm just a guy striving to do better for my dogs, to have ballanced dogs, although their pups will be known

I feel I have done good for my dogs, not just token titles, too many people show only 1 of 6 dogs and coast on one accomplisment.
IMO good old fasioned UNSANCIONED activities I can show they are good at says more than someone willing to go to enough shows to place

trust and money, I don't think either should be earned by a sites look,

I'm thinking a couple bla bla bla pages are needed, and the point on fun vs breeding is good

I really appreciate this input

 Quote: tracey holden

Just picking up on what Steve said about the piece where you said you would rather give a dog to a good home than sell to a bad...

.

I feel strong about that, and welcome follow up guestions, I never want to have to unload pups cause they are getting to big (a kijiji dig)
Like my mentor said, if you are doing it for the money, breed something easy

 Quote: Lisabet Measures

Dave, you might want to look at "Ethical Guidelines for Breeders" (CKC). You will see it outlines breeders' responsibilities.

I have that in my favorites, IMO it is worded kinda weak

lets use the example of nutrition

"At all times the dogs shall be provided with proper housing, nutrition, health care and necessary exercise."


I can PM a link to a mastiff breeder who must have mistakenly included a pic of a puppy infront of a big dish of PIG PELLETS
I phoned and was told that dogs and hogs have such similar nutritional requirments that it can be fed. Protein content bla bla bla, but registered breeder who shows. health care, ugg seen bad things with my eyes visiting ckc regristered breeders

I feel I'm easily past complying with all the SHALL's and most of the SHOULD's, and that one is covered by a shall !!!

however, I would love to know any deficient requirments I might be missing

thanks again to everyone, and I will not take answers personal
I really want the input.......Dave

When I looked at the pictures of what was supposed to be a lean athletic dog all I could think was 'wow... that dog is really fat.' When I think of lean I see a mental picture of a nice tuck to the stomach, well defined shoulders and thighs, perhaps a little rib showing with a strip of muscle over it. I've seen mastiffs that look like my mental picture. Even the Bull Mastiff stud with the huge barrel chest had an impressively athletic body.

That was my impression, that's my opinion.

I am going to add a FAQ page with some of these answers, for sure Steve's #4 I think that would help potential owners decide if I was worth calling

 Quote: SamanthaTopper

That was my impression, that's my opinion.

I totally agree with that impression..... they have a blocky apperance, the juviniles are usually like what you describe
--from the breed standard--
BODY
Chest wide, deep and well let down between forelegs. Ribs arched and well rounded. False ribs deep and well set back to hips. Girth one-third more than height at shoulder. Back and loins wide and muscular; flat and very wide in bitch slightly arched in a dog. Great depth of flanks.


if you look from above you see it,
above

I think one of the pictures on each dog's page should be a conformation shot.....the pictures there are cute but I like seeing the structure of a dog if I'm looking at potentially getting a puppy from them.

Also...health testing...hips, elbows, etc...where is it?

 Quote: Dave Owen

#4 no, I'm just a guy striving to do better for my dogs, to have ballanced dogs, although their pups will be known

I feel I have done good for my dogs, not just token titles, too many people show only 1 of 6 dogs and coast on one accomplisment.
IMO good old fasioned UNSANCIONED activities I can show they are good at says more than someone willing to go to enough shows to place

while I don't think a dog needs to win at a bunch of shows to be worth breeding I personally would cross a breeder off my list I didn't know personally immediately if the dogs didn't appear to do anything other than be a good housepet. It's nice that they pull but that doesn't mean they're breeding quality, what makes them exceptional that there needs to be more of them?

Ditto to Jamie's input here.

A successful breeder does show their dogs, perhaps even in a variety of different sports. The purpose of showing as you know is to "prove" the best bloodlines of the breed. But if you are unwilling to show your dogs, (and I was detecting some antipathy towards the CKC ) I do not know by which standards you can judge your breeding program over time...presumably only your own subjective viewpoint!

When a bloodline is established you can see how similar the litters are over time and how similar in type all of the litter mates are.

Now I am not personally fond of certain types of shows- I really like to watch working dogs- but if you are serious about breeding then I believe that the conformation shows go with the territory.

If you are not planning on being a CKC registered breeder I personally would not consider your pups no matter how lovely you or they are. (That is not to say that I have not owned/adopted unregistered pet dogs- I have- but the more "serious" dog owner who wants to compete in different sports etc.will want their pups to be registered. This means that you are probably narrowing your pool of potential good homes dramatically.

I just don't know how you can seriously enter into a "pet quality only" breeding program, (I think that is an oxymoron). I do not think that you have thought this through enough yet to embark on a business. I can tell that you have lots of enthusiasm and lots of ideas and I would not discourage that, but I do think that you need to do more research here before you start. And until you have established a potential client list for your pups you should definitely not breed. All this, IMHO!

ok, maybe a bit personal, I wanted opinions on the site, not assumptions made up I must have missed a page, really? not registered??? as for showing....

I plan on showing a pup ...whoopie!!!!! for right now I know that means nothing

 Quote: Lisabet Measures

If you are not planning on being a CKC registered breeder .....but the more "serious" dog owner who wants to compete in different sports etc.will want their pups to be registered.
I just don't know how you can seriously enter into a "pet quality only" breeding program, !

,

 Quote: Jamie Craig

while I don't think a dog needs to win at a bunch of shows to be worth breeding I personally would cross a breeder off my list I didn't know personally immediately if the dogs didn't appear to do anything other than be a good housepet.

so buy a pig food fed pup from a Show breeder,


thanks for the input,

I recall nothing about saying that

 Quote: Lisabet Measures

If you are not planning on being a CKC registered breeder .....but the more "serious" dog owner who wants to compete in different sports etc.will want their pups to be registered.
I just don't know how you can seriously enter into a "pet quality only" breeding program, !

I thank all the input,
but might not keep replying as incorect assumptions are starting to be made.....

I have shown my girls on my site as they are

this was PM'd to me

"I actually prefer your more personal approach to describing your dogs rather than the more clinical approach. The lap photos are hilarious. Those with weak femurs need not apply. Don't feel you need to have a cookie-cutter site. The personal touches make it stand out."

this is what I am trying to show on my site

I feel the need to clarify an assumption
I have nothing against the CKC, my girls are CKC registered, all our pups will be CKC registered, the CKC does alot for purebred dogs

 Quote: Lisabet Measures

(and I was detecting some antipathy towards the CKC )

 Quote: Dave Owen

IMO it is worded kinda weak

That is in reference to the wording, and I gave an example of how a person can follow the letter of the law, not the context it was ment in

 Quote: Dave Owen

I can PM a link to a mastiff breeder who must have mistakenly included a pic of a puppy infront of a big dish of PIG PELLETS
I phoned and was told that dogs and hogs have such similar nutritional requirments that it can be fed. Protein content bla bla bla, but registered breeder who shows

I really did not want to get into ethics and why's, those are not opinions on the site
in my OPINION I'm doing better than the average

Possibly a thread could be started on ethics, or what constitutes good breeding stock or how to prove it, I'm sure dozens of OPINIONS will be given on each,............ not what I was after here,...........

it is easy to diss any one starting out , but please keep assumptions out of this