I saw the word "rant" and I came over all giddy I like to think that I'm a dedicated ranter. I'm kind of glad the subject of politics is verboten though. Politics+rant=...*shudder* (not sure if it's a good shudder or bad)

This isn't about class, it's about priorities. I'm old enough to remember a time when there was always a parent at home and yes, things were MUCH better for the kids. Not so great for a career-minded parent perhaps...

Even so, I was a single mother and probably qualified as someone who technically lived below the poverty line for quite some time. I say 'probably' and 'technically' because I was always fortunate to have my family as a financial safety net in an emergency. But they didn't financially support me.

Even as a single parent working often crappy jobs, I made raising my daughter the first priority. She went to a great school, played the cello, took ballet lessons and had horses and dogs. Caring for the horses and the dogs taught her about compassion and responsibility, and it was something we did together. Animals provide almost unlimited teachable moments and opportunities for bonding. When I could, I took her to work with me (at two of the dog kennels) and when that wasn't an option I took jobs that had me working while she was in school or sleeping. I was probably the oldest 'paper boy' ever, but so what. I took classes while she was at school, too.

She learned manners, how to say 'please', 'thank you' and how to say 'yes ma'am' and 'yes sir'. She rarely watched TV, never cared about video games and spent lots of time playing outdoors. She learned how to say her prayers and I read her a story every night.

Maybe all of that sounds archaic, and maybe being raised by my grandparents influenced the values in our tiny household; who knows. She didn't grow up to be a perfect human being be she sure is pretty great. I like to think it's because I MADE the time to spend with her, and the bond we developed meant I was an influence in her life. I don't care who you are, you CAN make time for you kids and it DOES make a difference. Now everybody prefers to pass the buck. They plant the kid in front of the TV or a video game so they don't have to interact, and the child raises themselves no matter their income bracket. NOT cool.

Okay, that was more 'lecture' than 'rant', but oh well.

 Quote: Duane Hull

 Quote: Duane Hull

I would agree that some people have no business having kids, but the ones that do have an obligation to foster future generations and societies.

(chuckling) Tanya, you accidentally omitted this part of my post. I do not disagree with your views about human reproduction.

I think what got me is when you said, 'dog ownership is voluntary' and that 'repro is the natural order'. I read that as, everyone must reproduce (even though you made other comments to the contrary). You're right - dog ownership is voluntary, but so is human reproduction; if you can't do either well, I say don't and just take care of yourself well!

The other side of the coin, some people take adequate care of their dogs, probably 80% of the population would agree, it's the rest of the 20% (like us all here) that do way beyond what is considered "normal" - so who is nuts 80% or 20%!?!? I know I'm nuts - ask my dog, he'll tell you all the stupid things I do for him! (does he really need a bed in EVERY room of the house!??! - HELLO, he says, I'm on your bed 90% of the time and the rest of of time on the couch!) lol I won't judge other people's idea of adequate animal care - just like don't fault me for thinking my dog is just as important as your child.

FTR, I certainly never said everyone must reproduce; quite the contrary. If the responsible people don't reproduce, only the irresponsible will be raising children.
FTR, I do not value the life of MY dog or any other animal over that of a human life.

Any financial abundance I would have is spent on my dogs, who also take up 90% of my free time outside of working 40+ hours a week.

 Quote:

They plant the kid in front of the TV or a video game so they don't have to interact, and the child raises themselves no matter their income bracket. NOT cool.

Kristel, SO TRUE! Income is not an excuse to be a bad parent (I didn't mean to imply that). If you have a kid, they have to the top priority, not TV, not hobbies....none of it. Where there's a will there's a way...which was something else I left out! Importantly, we need to prioritize...we need stay informed, we need to vote, we need to be responsible with our driving, our children, our pets and our lives. We need to be mindful about how we are interacting with what is going on around us.

In this era, I am very proud to say I am a stay at home mom. I do some work from home and some while the kids are in school (more as a hobby than anything else- def. doesn't pay the bills!) Quite honestly, there has to be a balance between the Mom life, the wife life, working life and hobby life. Yes, kids come first every time for me but there is nothing wrong with a little tv time or self entertainment for kids. It's necessary for letting them find themselves. And quite honestly, parents do need a little time to catch up on the tornado of clothes and toys little ones leave behind
What these young people have is really irrelevant. My kids have the new Kinect games, the American Girls and brand name sports gear. It doesn't mean they are spoiled brats. In fact, (though I might be biased) they are usually the most well behaved children wherever we go. It has nothing to do with class or money. We have been both places. It has to do with wanting to teach the right things.
My only big rant is when people who do not choose to have kids (or dogs, or livestock, or gardens or whatever) feel the need to point out what they think is the wrong way to do it. Not trying to be rude, but it is my biggest pet peeve.

The class system in Britain is as old as time, the upper class, (old money) tend to have a no nonsense approach to children and dogs, devoted to their dogs and the lineage seems to be very important, and they tend to find a good line and stick with it, usually working and gun dogs, and these dogs have to earn their living and be productive. Their children are expected to attend certain schools, are usually brought into the family 'business' and continue the charitable ethos of their ancestors, marrying and breeding out is a risky business, and must be done under strict consideration of the future of the family 'good' name, marrying the 'wrong' person could be disastrous!

The working class is the engine room of the country, has the same attitude as the old money to their children, seen and not heard, work hard, mind your manners at ALL times, and never let down the good name of their family, and similarly, don't marry or breed out of your depth, and always remember your roots and your upbringing.

Then there is the middle classes! Social climbing, odious snobs, excruciatingly embarrassing in their desperation to ascend the classes into a world they will never fit into, laughed at by the upper and working classes alike, and producing foul, rude, socially crippled brats, who would make your foot itch every time they open their revolting, shrill, self important and absurd mouths.

And that, in a nutshell is the British class system, fundamentally unchanged since doomsday

Read 'One Pair Of Hands' and 'One Pair Of Feet' by Monica Dickens for an absolutely hilarious insight to the peculiarities of the great British public, written donkeys years ago and as true today as it was then!

I would have to say that in particular to my state (Maine), there is a very serious rift forming between the different classes of people. Mostly because of the economy, but also because of the tax rate, and state run programs. Our biggest downfall is the state run programs and the immense amount of taxes that are required to sustain them. That gigantic amount of money is being sucked out of the working class, and given to a very large portion of the state that doesn't really need it.

There is no oversight to where all this money is going, so if you know the system, you can live like a king with not much effort, and don't have to work. The well-to-do in the state don't give it a second thought because most of them are only here in the summer anyway, or have a "primary residence" in another state.

We get ALOT of people from other states all across the country come to Maine (and other countries too!) and their first stop is the hospital. Most people think that's odd, but thats how the system works here. You get any kind of medical condition, even one that can't be proven outright (back pain, neck pain, psych, drug or alcohol related), and you qualify for alot of different programs. Free healthcare, free rent, free groceries, free cell phone, free oil heat, and free extra money for living expenses. All from the wonderful state of maine taxpayers.

If you don't feel like working anymore come on up and sign up for the program! If your an immigrant to the U.S.A, you should be in Maine where all the free money is! It's so bad right now, alot of our immigrants take their state check and send it overseas, because there's plenty of other state funding!

Right now at this very moment I can name off probably 4 dozen people that receive state money that don't need it. A few in particular are screwing the system so bad it's sad, and the state government doesn't care. Imagine having two full time incomes coming into your house, but then you pay no mortgage or rent, and the state sends you money for groceries, and you only pay "what you can" for oil heat. It's no wonder theres people running around here with new $52,000 BMW's and the state pays their rent. Oh, and the more kids you have, the more the state sends you on a monthly basis to help you take care of them, but thats only if your not working. If your working you don't qualify for anything, even if you only need a little help once in a while.

I hope anybody that is thinking about moving to Maine reads this and has second thoughts. Now if your just visiting, it's fine, very pretty state, just don't be surprised when you find out how expensive things are. Overall it's definitly a tourist trap, just don't live here.

(p.s. Stay out of Portland at night unless your 20 something and like to drink & fight. Especially in the summer!)

Ok, I'll stop now.

*rant off*

One of the reason that we moved to Idaho is that it is not a welfare-friendly state, and we like it that way.

Ah well Ben, that's why the British class system should be fool proof, every one knows their place and stays in it - except for the pesky middle classes who jump from camp to camp depending on the opinion of the Daily Telegraph or the Guardian

Was that reference to the press poilitical?!

Or even political

Edited by tracey holden (02/23/2012 04:51 AM)
Edit reason: spelling