Quote: Laurel Plemmons

Connie, I have finished watching 220, and read the article/ebook "the power of training dogs with makers." I knew the concept of marker training, I just didn't know how the mechanics worked. My next one, once this foundation is firm, is "the power of playing tug with your dog".

Ok, well I think I will back up a few steps then and change his release word for marker training. ...

"Release word" is maybe emphasizing something a little different from what you want that marker to be in the new-learning dog's perception. While it does function as the release (the end of the command),it sounds like you're thinking of it more as the release in another training system.

Your marker (verbal or clicker) means "Correct! Reward coming!" As a beginner, THIS is what you want to convey to the dog: the clear link between that sound and his reward.




I guess you cannot have loaded (charged) your marker because you have just decided to choose a new marker word. So with that new marker, how will you charge (or load) it? This one very basic foundation task explains the importance of the marker and what it's supposed to convey.

If you tell us how you plan to load the marker, we'll all have a way clearer idea of where you are in how the mechanics (and the concept!) work.

The very beginning of marker training for me (and I think for many) contains a lightbulb moment -- not just for the dog, but for us -- of how the mark gives the dog a very precise snapshot of what he was doing when the reward was earned. Not when it was handed over, but when it was earned.

I needed DVD 219. I might not if I were starting now because of all the free clips, the books, articles, talks, lectures, youtube, etc., but years ago when Ed started marker work and it was brand new to me, I really grasped it from DVD 219. Then 220 was clear sailing.

Of course, that's just me.

The Michael Ellis clips on classical and operant conditioning increased my understanding of how to use my marker training, and were the main lessons that helped me cement my marker vocabulary. I also learned alot from his opening lecture.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

... If you tell us how you plan to load the marker, we'll all have a way clearer idea of where you are in how the mechanics (and concept!) work.

I don't mean to be presenting a quiz or putting you on the spot. I'm trying to get a feel for how you see the marker and what it means to the dog.

If you'd rather, I'm happy to describe my loading the marker.

This topic will clarify an important chunk of the mechanics you're looking for.

Well, I went back and reconditioned "yes" as his release marker. ( I used a few training sessions to make sure he got it. I started the session with "Are you ready?" which gave me his attention. Then I said "yes", then after a moment's pause, holding the treat like Ellis does, took a step back so he had to chase a little to get it). I then sometimes used another praise term while he chewed, like Good boy.
And then I end the training sessions with showing him my empty hands and saying "all done!"
I am teaching "stand from sit", so I have him sit in front of me. Then, using a small jackpot held in both hands, I take a step forward and move my hands forward and just under his nose. At first he had to scoot back a bit before he stood up, but now he stands up almost immeadiately. As soon as he is standing, I say "yes", then short pause, and then he gets the treat. In this case I don't make him chase the treat.

So to specifically answer your question, "yes" means "that is exactly what I wanted you can stop now and heres a treat". His previously trained release word for sit-stays and down stays, was just a "ok now you can move" but the reward was the release itself, not a treat.

 Quote: Laurel Plemmons

Well, I went back and reconditioned "yes" as his release marker. ( I used a few training sessions to make sure he got it. I started the session with "Are you ready?" which gave me his attention. Then I said "yes", then after a moment's pause, holding the treat like Ellis does, took a step back so he had to chase a little to get it). I then sometimes used another praise term while he chewed, like Good boy.
And then I end the training sessions with showing him my empty hands and saying "all done!"
I am teaching "stand from sit", so I have him sit in front of me. Then, using a small jackpot held in both hands, I take a step forward and move my hands forward and just under his nose. At first he had to scoot back a bit before he stood up, but now he stands up almost immeadiately. As soon as he is standing, I say "yes", then short pause, and then he gets the treat. In this case I don't make him chase the treat.

So to specifically answer your question, "yes" means "that is exactly what I wanted you can stop now and heres a treat". His previously trained release word for sit-stays and down stays, was just a "ok now you can move" but the reward was the release itself, not a treat.

"Well, I went back and reconditioned "yes" as his release marker. ( I used a few training sessions to make sure he got it. I started the session with "Are you ready?" which gave me his attention. Then I said "yes", then after a moment's pause, holding the treat like Ellis does, took a step back so he had to chase a little to get it). I then sometimes used another praise term while he chewed, like Good boy. "

This isn't how I load (charge) the marker. It's why I asked in advance that you explain how you were going to do it, or ask us to outline how to do it.

For me, at the beginning, there's no extra praise while he chews, there's no time for it even if there was supposed to be (a beginner marker reward is tiny, M&M size, no chewing, no interruption to the session).



"I am teaching "stand from sit" ... "

You need to load the marker before teaching any commands.

"Stand from sit" is not a beginning command for a dog and owner who are brand-new to markers.


I'm not at home but will be sure to review the thread when I am, to see what DVD you have watched, etc. I'll definitely describe loading the marker as I learned (#219).

Or maybe Bob or Anne or someone else very familiar with marker training will see this sooner.

I feel like I'm saying "no" and "not" a lot! I'm trying hard to pull marker training out of and away from your old training, because you are mixing them together in some ways.

It'll work out!!




Edited by Connie Sutherland (07/10/2012 03:39 PM)
Edit reason: eta

To load the mark...the dog need to learn that the click of the clicher if you are using one...or the marker word that you are going to use many of us use 'yes' as a marker word & it NEEDS to sound the same every time you say it just like a clicker sound is the same each time(or it means nothing to to the dog).

To try to keep it VERY simple....Basically you are going to take the dog to a distraction free place (I usually start in the kitchen with a new behavior) & get the dogs attention with 'are you ready' or some other phrase you want to use...then you say the marker word or click & then give the treat to the dog...this is done over several sessions or more depending on the dog until the dog realizes that the marker word has menaing. He learns that the 'marker word' means that something good is comeing ...a yummy treat.

Once this base is established then you can free shape or lure the dog into positions & mark the position or behavior & then treat. You want to put some 'action' into the treat delivery to hold the dogs interest & tap into his 'drive' for the food. You don't name the position or behavior until it is what you want it to look like as a finished position or behavior. If teaching a sit by luring....you would lure the dog into a sit & mark & treat. Then lure the dog as he assumes the position say sit & mark & treat. After a few times the dog will understand that postions is sit & when he does it he gets the marker word or click & a treat.

You only teach one thing at a time & don't start anything new until he knows the first one. With a bit of time when you say sit & he doesn't do it you will give a negative marker, like no ore nope & then say the command again & if he does it marke & treat if not say the negative marker & so on.

Eventually you will reward with a toy or tug depending on what you are doing with the dog....ie sport etc.

Again for the whole information you need to watch some of the free vids here or get the marker training dvd.

Also there is NO negative markers or corrections of any kind when you are first getting a dog to learn about a marker word & begining training. You want to keep it all fun & upbeat.

It is alot harder to try to explain then to watch a vid or dvd. I am sure that I have left something out...but I am on my way out the door & just trying to help Connie out a bit.

Please wathc a video. Much clearer.

Stand from sit was hard for my dog.

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

Stand from sit was hard for my dog.

It's definitely not a beginner command.

QUOTE (from Anne) "You really NEED to watch one of the vids of how to teach marker training.

To load the mark...the dog need to learn that the click of the clicher if you are using one...or the marker word that you are going to use many of us use 'yes' as a marker word & it NEEDS to sound the same every time you say it just like a clicker sound is the same each time(or it means nothing to to the dog).

To try to keep it VERY simple....Basically you are going to take the dog to a distraction free place (I usually start in the kitchen with a new behavior) & get the dogs attention with 'are you ready' or some other phrase you want to use...then you say the marker word or click & then give the treat to the dog...this is done over several sessions or more depending on the dog until the dog realizes that the marker word has menaing. He learns that the 'marker word' means that something good is comeing ...a yummy treat."



" .... you say the marker word or click & then give the treat to the dog ... this is done over several sessions or more depending on the dog until the dog realizes that the marker word has meaning."

And that's all. That's ALL you do to "load the mark." This charges the mark ... shows the dog the value of it. It makes a "marker means reward is coming right away!" association.

Not a training exercise.

Everything else you described confuses and/or taints this major piece of info, IMO, and you can't marker train until this is done.

The dog soon sees that "yes" (although I personally would start over with a new word, because I think you've trained the dog that "yes" means "chase me as I back up and I'll reward you") means that a reward is immediately following: "Reward coming!"

The way you will know that your marker is loaded (charged) is that after several repetitions, possibly in the first little "session," you will mark and the dog will look for the reward.

That's it! It means you have associated the marker with the reward in his mind!



I agree 100% with Anne that you need to watch the DVD (for me, 219). Not criticism! It's just so much easier to watch it than to read it.

If you will bump this tonight or early tomorrow I'll search for a free video clip of loading the marker and maybe some old threads about teaching the first command.


I urge that you slow down. Until you load the marker, become fluid with getting the rewards out of your bait bag or wherever they are hidden, get your timing down, and teach some extremely simple commands (like sit) using this method, I'd really encourage you to put such things as "stand from sit" and "bark. no bark" on a back burner.


We want you to learn this (and also have fun), I promise you! I'm not saying (as Bob said, too) to slow down in order to discourage you. It will all go so well if you slow down, do one thing at a time ......

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

The dog soon sees that "yes" (although I personally would start over with a new word, because I think you've trained the dog that "yes" means "chase me as I back up and I'll reward you") means that a reward is immediately following: "Reward coming!"

The way you will know that your marker is loaded (charged) is that after several repetitions, possibly in the first little "session," you will mark and the dog will look for the reward.

That's it! It means you have associated the marker with the reward in his mind!

I worked with a friend who used "yes", but started out with very bad timing. We considered using another word, but he really wanted that one. We were able to reload the "yes" mark in a couple or three sessions; no harm done.