That grabbing the leash is effort to control, my dog did it for many many months.
Have you read the business on marker training? Much of it is free. That plus exercise is the answer IMO. He will focus on you if there is hamburger in your pocket.

Your dog sounds a lot like mine. A working dog. I learned that these guys can't just have petting whenever I feel like it, for example just because his coat is soft and I'd like to love him up. This sort of dog needs to have a job and earn everything. THIS is how you
"hook up" this kind of dog, the real working dog, and get them to a place where they would not consider biting, they give you respect.
They are very different from your standard pooch. It was hard for me to learn.

These guys can't really be overpowered with a fight --- your guy could likely move a bull --- they like nothing more than a fight. With marker training life becomes a puzzle to solve, the beast turns into a thinker.
I'd try that route plus a ton of exercise, and stop petting him period for a few days, don't even look his way. He'll figure it out very quickly.
What tricks does he know? Tricks can be a job too. For example, you say he's slow to sit. Make him sit and stay before his dinner. No sit, no dinner. He will start sitting like a robot, you'll see!

Thanks Betty

I will look into the marker training, the only thing is that he is not that motivated by food, his toys yes, but not food. Can marker training be done with toys?

Quite frankly I think the biggest thing your dog needs is something constructive to DO. He is a working dog with mental and physical ability to work stock for several hours a day.

With a dog like this - no more free time in the garden all day as it's counterproductive. It gives him a chance to fixate on things and learn bad habits.

With his play time, don't let him just play with the toys, make him work for them. Have him sit, down or heel before throwing the ball.

Hide his toys and then release him to go find them (using his nose is great mental exercise). I think half of your issues of stemming from a bored, frustrated dog.

Tether him to you in the house or crate him. Start him on "Nothing in Life is Free". All good things come through you when he does what you ask him to do.

I'm not against prong collars, however in your situation it could just key him up more unless he's getting the structure and fulfillment of his needs in other areas.

NILIF is critical here. As Duane said, "your dog sounds to me like he's feeling a little big for his britches."

Betty and Mara have outlined a good program.

Find out what tiny bit of food DOES motivate him (cooked bits of bacon? Tiny cubes of cooked chicken? We are not talking kibble here, for a dog not particularly food-driven) and do marker sessions when he is hungry (not after dinner).

Toys at the beginning ..... IMO, no. You need the repetitions, the ease of whipping it out, the non-stop action, the lack of distraction .... of tiny bits of food.

That am't of structured exercise is not sufficient, IMO.

Who will be doing the training? You? Do you know the term NILIF?






PS

Why you start with food (and some pointers about how much must be in place before a toy is used): http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/206/Michael_Ellis_on_When_to_Use_Food__Toys_in_Your_Dog_Training

"Tether him to you in the house."



BIG ditto.




PS
Do you have/have you seen any marker DVDs? Do you know about loading (charging) your marker?

Hi again
Yes it is me doing the training and no i have no idea what NILIF means? could you please explain?

Thanks

 Quote: Brian Sheppard

Hi again
Yes it is me doing the training and no i have no idea what NILIF means? could you please explain?

Thanks

As Mara mentioned, "Nothing in Life is Free."

But it takes a bit of explaining.

The dog earns everything. You'll get more responses, and I can come back a bit later with some details, too.

The point is, YOU control the dog's life, his resources, his actions, his movements, his everything. You become the central focus in the dog's life at the same time that he learns that his decisions about behavior mean poo-poo in your house.

He has been allowed to perceive that he has a lot of say in what he does and that he owns stuff.
Nuh-uh.

this dog is going to need a LOT more than just an hour in the AM and an hour in the PM .

he comes from working stock , so a dog that is used to being mentally and physically engaged all day .

first thing you need to start with is the engagement with you . like the others have said , " nilif " , and everything comes through you .

educate yourself in the theory and practice of marker training ASAP .

start with short little sessions where the focus is entirely on you for the whole time , even if that means you are stuffing food in his face the whole time . you bring him out , he does his business , work up some quick little drills where you are directing the action , then put him away . repeat that four times in your one hour time slots , and you will soon start to see a dog that realizes all the fun in the world comes from you . these sessions need to be productive , not lengthy .

you can even cut out mealtimes . . . all the food he gets comes from you during your time together .

no more free running the backyard all day . all that unsupervised time is leading him to make his own rules and his own entertainment , which , as you can see , is going to lead to a dangerous situation .

he needs to be crate trained .

don't even think about prolonged behaviours , ( sit , stand , down , stay , etc ) until you / he have engagement . until he demonstrates that he wants what you have ( food , at this point ) and willingly focuses on you to get it , you won't have him in the right frame of mind / motivation to learn .

i'm not in favor of training this dog in a " class " setting . i'd be doing all this foundation work in isolation , before i'd complicate matters with other dog distractions . pretty tough to expect the dog to learn anything from you when , at this point , there are better , more important things to attend to , border collie style . again , remember , this is a breed whose main purpose in life is to monitor and maintain order of the things around him .

as for the biting and nipping , he will use as much force as he feels necessary to " get'r done " , whatever that may be , as HE perceives it .

sorry for the rambling nature of my post . . .

of course , i have to ask , what attracted to you to this breed , and what plans did / do you have for him so that he grows into a healthy , happy dog ?

i don't mean to offend or chastise , but so far , the problems you describe are exactly the kind of BC stories that wind up with the dog at a shelter .

i'll leave you with this bit of border collie advice , " either you find the border collie a meaningful job to do , or he'll create one for himself " .

with this breed , you need to consider what changes you might need to make to your life to accommodate his needs , otherwise the future does not look bright for either you , the dog , or your family . i personally know of one BC who lives happily in a downtown apartment , but the family puts alot of time , energy and money into seeing that he gets the mental stimulation and physical exercise he needs to keep him sane and a livable companion .

if she hasn't already , i'm sure connie will post up the links to the DVD's you need to get this program on track . . . good luck !!

As you can see, the majority of responses here advocate working this dog and NILIF. BCs excel at agility; that may be something you want to look into.

Remember; a tired dog is an obedient dog.

Just for the record, I have a GSD who needs a lot of stimulation, or I would have some of the same issues. My first six months at the training club were spent solely on removing that reactive edge so that we could go there and focus on the work. She's still very sharp, but now she knows I mean it it when I say "Ready to work?". She is able to focus now, and never challenges me.

"i'm not in favor of training this dog in a " class " setting . i'd be doing all this foundation work in isolation , before i'd complicate matters with other dog distractions . pretty tough to expect the dog to learn anything from you when , at this point , there are better , more important things to attend to"

I forgot to mention this, which struck me immediately.

No distractions during the foundation work .... he can't learn ob and practice commands and focus on you with so much else taking up all his attention.

Also, I wanted to add a quick note about the job .... IMO, the job doesn't necessarily have to be a BC job at all, but a thinking and active job. Folks here will help with that. (ETA: Duane has offered one suggestion, above, while I was typing. )

For now, you will be pleased and inspired to see just how much thinking and action you can put into something as simple as marker training the basic ob commands!

Tell us what (if any) you have seen of the articles and video clips on marker training (and pack structure, too).

Good for you, BTW, to recognize the issues and ask for help!



Edited by Connie Sutherland (09/18/2012 01:02 PM)
Edit reason: ETA 3rd paragraph of reply