What I like about a prong or martingale is the fact that they will only tighten so much, while a DD will continue to tighten. And to clarify, you are talking about using the DD as the main collar, not as a prong backup?

I use it as a prong back-up, but the OP wants to get away from the prong. I was suggesting using it as a back-up to primary equipment, with it only engaging when the dog pulls.

Personally, IMHO, I think the dog might benefit from more leash-pressure training and some desensitizing.

I'd find a new vet.
Did your dog have any signs of damage to his neck or is the vet just one of those folks that think a dog should be free to do what it wants?
The prong collar is an excellent tool when used properly.
ANY dog training tool be it a collar, tug, whatever can be abusive or harmful when used improperly.

The vet is an old guy who has been around and he has a lot of knowledge. He has good advice, and best of all he is a Veterans Admin approved vet, which I need, since they pay for all my dogs vet care and medicines. He even has a really nice large van with a full lab and his daughter who is a vet comes with him. He comes to my house. I have another great vet around the corner, but he won't give the VA three years of tax returns to show he is a legit vet. They pay with in the week too. oh well... anyway...This is really the first issue I have run into with the old guy...

He thinks that ....and I am paraphrasing here.... that the prong collar is supposed to be used inside out to protect the dog from being bitten by other dogs. He further feels it is in humane and inflicts pain on the dog. I know prong collars have a bad rap and I didn't like the look of it either, but the folks at the Guide Dog/Vet Dogs facility explained how it works and the purpose. How it constricts... where to place it, upper neck...not around the trach...etc... That a prong collar is only inhumane if it is used inhumanely.

I was trained to use the collar at the Guide Dog/Vet Dog Foundation because my dog just has so much drive and is still young. I have tried halties...and every kind there is too... he will paw at them and in general does not like them... He likes the prong collar just fine and it works perfect. better then the haltie, and people think the haltie is a muzzle and he is dangerous, which, is bad for me in public... I have a cover over it from VetDogs so it is not obvious.

The dog has no injuries from the collar. God forbid...no that would never happen... He only wears it when we go outside the house. Inside the house he is fine. Outside he sometimes is just to eager to get where we are going and I have to walk really slow most times. I am always reinforcing and training him when I have time. I stop...let him walk ahead of me....ask him...What are you doing?? and he backs up to his place beside my side. He knows what he is doing...its just a matter of training. I might do that over and over until he gets it, but I cannot be training him all of time. I need him to work, so by placing a bit of tension on the leash/prong collar he gets the message and slows down. It takes very little. It is almost like a communication device between us... I don't use it to jerk him, or hurt him. Just gently control him. I think after some time and a little growing up, he will start to get better. He has already become better as we work together.

For example, if he knows we are going out, he will try to hurry me up to get to the truck.... From the doorway downt he sidewalk to the driveway he gets very excited. That is when I usually work with him on it a bit. Once we are in a store, or restaurant he is perfect. It is only when he gets a bit excited and wants to get there faster than I can walk.

Sorry for the long reply...

I'd just tell your vet that you are using something else. He sounds like a good vet, who just has the wrong idea about prong collars. Or rather than lying, I'd skirt around the subject as much as possible.

A dog that pulls on the leash despite prior training because he's getting too wound up about something 'new' and 'exciting' is a dog that isn't being challenged enough, mentally, outside of the over stimulation. What kind of activities does he do before you gear him up and leave home to take care of your business? Is it possible for you to contact the folks you got him from and explain the situation and ask for their help finding a trainer in your area that will help you desensitize him?

Hmmmm... that is a very good question. He is geared up in the home and works all day. When we go out to the VA he rides in the ambulette with me. We walk the hospital to where we are going. He is always calm. He has had this issue since puppy training, and even in formal training they addressed it. I was told to keep working on it. He will get better as he ages.

He kind of always wants to be a little a head of me... I can't have that as I need him right by my side and I don't want to injure my back pulling him on his harness handle. He responds to verbal commands to slow down, and I have little sounds I make to let him know he needs to slow down. But I should not have to keep reminding him. We are talking a six inch problem here...

With the prong on, he still does it, but it is much easier to correct, and he falls into line. I can just pull a little bit and he corrects. I am talking a very small adjustment here, OK?... but it is something I need to get into his skull. If he is doing this, sometime I stop, he will keep walking... I ask him...What are you doing?...Back.... he backs up to where he is supposed to be and we go on. I do this when I have time, but maybe I should do it more.

Lately I have been working with him off leash and getting him to just walk by me without his harness to see if this Exercise teaches him anything. He stays close, but he is still new to this so he is a little confused walking off leash.

Now, true to what you say, if I bring him out and throw the toy for him for a bit and wear him out a little he is much more docile. Problem is, I can only throw so much before it hurts... and I can't do it before every outing. I use orbie on a rope or other like toys that I can fling with my hand under hand. Can't do over hand. I do it sitting down as it is.

I am still using snacks whenever we go out. Trainer told me to keep that up... I walk VERY slow...but lets say, we are going to the beach. My dog loves the lake. loves, loves, loves water...hose, bucket, ocean, lake....he still gets very excited that we are going swimming. He does swim with me. I do play fetch with him in the water. But in that example, from the gate over the sand to the water he is very excited and the prong is the only thing that keeps him in check.

It isn't enough to be a big deal, but he is 3 now, and he should be able to heal close to me without walking out. He should know his job, and not break into play until his harness is off. With a Mobility dog they play with them in harness also... not like a blind service dog. But, I have always kept to the harness on is work time deal.

He still has a little puppy in him. He trained from 14 months to 24 months and then another 20 days in the facility with me. I raised him as a pup using the DVDs here and the trainers advice on the phone. He was familiar with the trainer on the videos. Not Ed, the other guy...forget... anyway...

I got the other collar to try, and so far I am not getting the results I do with a prong. Tried in only ounce, but I have to work on it some more. It does not constrict around the throat the same way as a prong. It is a collar with teeth in it.

I got little plastic things for the prongs to make me feel better. We will try that. I will try and get out of the chair and walk him around the block more and work on it. I have been deficient in that, but it hurts me a lot to walk. In the house he does stairs and chair to the bathroom, kitchen, etc. He is fine in the house with out a prong. Absolutely perfect. He watches me shower, and stays next to my chair in his round bed napping. Walks by my side all day.

He typically has two active periods a day when he wants to play. He will not take no for an answer. He will talk to me, bring the leash, get my cane, my boots, just about anything to go outside. Sometimes we play a little ball inside too. He likes small little pakmans and balls that he throws up in the air and then pounces on....He is a very playful dog still. Just to give you an idea of his personality...A 3 year old puppy. I am wishing i might have not had him fixed... He might have grown up a bit faster. I fixed him at 12 months.

Sorry I wrote so much.... Any advise would be welcome...

Ken;

I disagree with the notion that fixing a dog affects the rate at which they mature. I disagree with some other home remedies for aging a dog, as well. I have had both fixed and intact males and females, and there is no obvious trend.

My dog is 5yo, and still does all of the things you describe. The breeder that gave her to me bred her on her first heat to make her mature faster , and that didn't work, either. It is her temperament. I can manage it, but I can't change it.

To be frank, judging on your last post, your dog needs a little more stimulation than you are physically able to provide. If you are going to continue to work with him, you will have to be patient and keep doing the things you're doing, as the formal trainer suggested. It really sounds like you would be better paired with a lower-drive dog.

JMO

Would getting some puzzle toys for him help? Something that keeps him engaged mentally could help him focus more on his work. Maybe more OB work while you sit too, just to tire him out a bit. Sounds like you have an eager partner- that's great! Hope you find something that works for you to fine-tune your relationship.