You are right Kelly. His reason for reaction is self inflicted tho, and that is the issue I worked with him today. We did a bunch of 180's and circling in the house today, working with his am meal and the prong.
When I first took him out, I popped on the prong, and a muzzle, and let him have his fit. After a few minutes of realizing he could not bite the leash, he immediately sat and looked at me.
I kept the leash work in the living room, and we basically crazy walked for about ten minutes, and when he let the lead loose, off came the muzzle, and we began basic obedience. He did great, not a peep.
I do not correct with the collar, I correct with no reward, rather than pop the leash, which is what the trainer wanted me to do at a high level.
With cars I turn him around, walk away a few steps as it approaches, and place him in a sit before it passes. The minute it is close, we play tug, until it passes, with diff lengths of time btwn ending the session. If I miss a car approaching from behind, I blame myself and winter.
He is not aggressive with the kids outdoors, I would say more pissed off at not being able to near them or btwn them.
We worked with the food bowl and bone today.
He passed with flying colors. I believe the muzzle was the win on this. That restraint for him was horrible, and after it went off, but in view, he was awesome. He stepped away from the bone, and even dropped it at much feet for a reward. I mix up the rewards, from physical touch to food rewards.
As a test, while I was sitting a shelf together in the kitchen, a way s from his area, I gave him his bone , as the kids are gone til Saturday, and had to pass him to get a screw driver. I said as I passed, where's your tummy, and immediately he flipped over and showed me his belly, something he has not done for a few months! I gave him a scratch, moved on, and saidbiscuit, he left the bone, sat at my feet, and got his treat.
So every am, Nilf training, gentle leash pressure, and hopefully he will thrive. I spent all last night watching Ellis and Leesburg vids, and a diff trainer, called solid k9 training, and learned a lot.
Thankfully, he lives the kids, and never jumps or shoves them, zero mouthing.
After your post Kelly, I realized. Every one here is pets and fun. I get left with the discipline, training and walks. So why would he want to build a relationship with me. Today, we changed that.
As for grooming, I am going to continue to mark and reward, I have read this breed is known for grooming issues. So will have to find a higher value treat, and see how it goes.
Thank you all, very open to all opinions!

Fascinating. discussion with all those inputs, very useful for me and my so different characters of dogs too.

Sorry I was inexact when talking about my dog having the leash on constantly. The leash I used, was so short that he couldn't step on or get somehow tangled with it. It was merely meant to get him used to that thing like we to wearing a wristwarch. At the same time this gave me the opportunity to grab him easier.

About all the other issues I think you'll have to observe your dog well and look on what procedure he reacts best. If for example you had such success with the muzzle, it is a great improvement. Apart from this, a muzzle trained dog will be much easier to handle in other situations too. (Vet, accidents...)

I like the contributions of Kelly and Bob a lot. They'e very logical and precise and come from personal experience with different dogs.Very useful to read it more than once.

Though, I personally wouldn't give the dog back to the breeder, or only if everything fails. Reading your mail, I've got the impression, that your struggling, yes, but also that there are obvious improvements. I'd like to encourage you to not giving in. I know it can be tough, but it is worth going on seeing the positive sides.

 Quote: Kelly

Honestly with the reactivity to cars, pressure, the resource guarding... he really sounds like he's got lots of anxiety going on.... and since he's so young, it would most likely be genetic...

My 2 cents - take it for what it's worth...

Kel

MUCH more Diplomatically put than my post, Kelly But this is my gut instinct as well -- The old-time term would be "nerve bag" meaning Faulty Neurological Wiring that often results in irrational Fear-Aggro ... Virtually un-fixable & never really Safe around Kids

 Quote: Bob Scott

Two things that I'm looking at is 1st what Candi said about to much dog for you and 2nd what Kelly said about the strong possibility of the problem being aggression. At the very least a dog that NEEDS a strong handler.

Either way I don't think you are knowledgeable enough yet to handle the dog properly without some actual help on the spot.

LB has some terrific, highly skilled folks here but most all started with a dog with a less strong, OR poor temperament then your dog.

For your safety and your families it may be best to start over with another dog that will be easier to build YOUR leadership and Management skills.

Hard to do but this should be a "family first" issue for you.

AGREED 100%, Bob -- Tough call, but usually the Best one, in a home with KIDS...

I respect everyone's opinions immensely, and sending him back is fed the next option.
Today, with an empty belly, I picked up the prong and leash. He came on his own, from the kitchen, ready to work. So far, not one bit of the old fight the lead. The walk was complete focus. And I was able to call him off the bone outside, and mark and reward.
I am not sure what caused the turn around, perhaps it is because he is hungry, as all his meals are now from the bait bag, but as long as he stays this way, I am loving it.
As we speak, he is laying at his spit at the door, like a throw rug.
And tho there is prob no point to mention this. The bites were never full mouth, just a nick on the skin, on the hand . He has never full on attacked.
I apologize if you feel I am making light of this situation. I am not, I have dealt with worse aggression, and I was assured this phase would pass , and that it is common for OES to try and run the household. I was just surprised at how powerful a pup can be!

I respect everyone's opinions immensely, and sending him back is fed the next option.
Today, with an empty belly, I picked up the prong and leash. He came on his own, from the kitchen, ready to work. So far, not one bit of the old fight the lead. The walk was complete focus. And I was able to call him off the bone outside, and mark and reward.
I am not sure what caused the turn around, perhaps it is because he is hungry, as all his meals are now from the bait bag, but as long as he stays this way, I am loving it.
As we speak, he is laying at his spit at the door, like a throw rug.
And tho there is prob no point to mention this. The bites were never full mouth, just a nick on the skin, on the hand . He has never full on attacked.
I apologize if you feel I am making light of this situation. I am not, I have dealt with worse aggression, and I was assured this phase would pass , and that it is common for OES to try and run the household. I was just surprised at how powerful a pup can be!

Sorry, internet is wonky today, I apologize for the double post!

Good afternoon Becky,

I'll admit to being a bit confused but in so far as it is my normal demeanor, I shall press on.

The dog is a puppy, 6 months old or so, and my impression of your initial post was that you had a son of Cujo or the like, which I thought was unlikely given the age of the dog.

I then got the impression that the dog was untrainable, unreliable, and perhaps a bit dangerous, and a young dog.

And, ever the lurker, I read posts and replies and started to come to form an opinion of a dog that was young, testing, young, a brat, young, and young. And, forgive me, that perhaps all the training was going on without the strength of voice and demeanor that emphasized leadership and confidence. That is probably wrong.

A young dog, is a young dog, is a young dog. Some are very easy to train and want to please the leader. Some are super independent and from day one want to be the leader. Some are skittish and have a need for their confidence to be reinforced. And some, and some, and some. A young dog uses its teeth, occasionally but usually not to inflict attacking damage. Your last post seemed to indicate that no real attacking was going on.

We all have to figure out what the key is to the dog. There is no one key that fits all. Generally speaking, you train the dog today for the one you want tomorrow. Sometimes we expect too much from a young dog, and that can lead to issues. Sometimes we expect too little from a young dog and that brings other issues.

I have my rules. They start out with I am in charge, and that is a demeanor thing. Then there are the commands that reinforce my position, and set boundaries for behaviors desired and not so much. The rules are non negotiable. Age does not warrant a pass but it may warrant more patience or tolerance while on the training path.

With a young dog, it has been my experience that often for two steps forward there is an unanticipated one step back. But I train today for the dog I want tomorrow, and always with my rules.

I believe in rewards both verbal and treat based, and marker training, and my posturing. I want my dogs to read me, as I hope I have learned to read them.

A young dog has a lot to learn. Some of it is an easy teach, and some is not so easy. And some comes with praise, and some with a little more firm purpose. When all is said and done, you will have the dog for a bunch of years, and how you set the atmosphere between you and the young dog will determine how pleasant the years will be.

Your last post seemed to indicate, to me, a young dog going through young dog antics. Some aren't pleasant but your attitude and intent will get you through it as long as you have purpose and rules. And abundant patience and determination.

Need more coffee or maybe a mug of Lyons Gold Irish tea.

Thank you Mike. I re read my posts, and as I usually do,I over talk with lack of explanation. Tho he is cujo on the leash, he is only really biting the leash aggressively.

Again right in the fact that I am probably very soft in the demeanor. I def was not today. I made sure he was looking and listening before I commanded anything, and added more duration with eye contact, as u know he knows what a sit is.
In order to not confuse him, I do not use the word wait anymore. I simply say sit, or down, and release with okay.
We will take this day by day, step by step, and stay positive!
I have hope, as he is so young, that he will catch on, if it means no food bowl again, I am fine with that, I actually love the bait bag!
Any setbacks, I believe, would be my doing. So I must keep myself disciplined as much as him.
Coffee for me!
Now here's to hoping he continues today's great behaviour on the grooming table later tonight!

Forgive me as I may have missed something, but the injuries that you described in the first post on this thread - sprained wrist, fractured bone, chipped tooth, herniated discs, leg black and blue.... well I've trained wild horses that resulted in less injury.... having a puppy should really not be this damaging.... I think this is why some are so concerned with the safety of the kids in the home.

just an observation....

A couple other things- in the first post you mention he would rather be poked in the ribs than move his rear over. Dogs honestly have very little rear end awareness. He may not understand that all you want him to do is move his butt because in his head his butt is where it needs to be. Work some on backing up and using a touch pad with focus on getting the rear feet up on the pad- these exercises will help with rear end awareness.

Have you ever just had him on the grooming table for no reason other than giving him treats? No grooming or body manipulation - just hang out on the table and get treats. Once he is comfortable just being on the table start touching him all over- again just hanging out getting touched and treats. Gradually build up to asking him to move into different positions and add equipment. In my mind, and I may be way off, it just feels like the grooming stuff was rushed and he is not comfortable on the table yet... he is young enough that you can still desensitize him to the table... it just takes time and patience.

Leash pressure is scary to pups. Eleven flipped out her first few times on leash - most pups do. With her I stayed with her and kept very light pressure on the leash- so when she backed up to get away from it, I moved with her keeping the same pressure on the leash. Once she stopped fighting it- even if it was to take a breath- I dropped the leash and let her do what she wanted for a short time. She only pitched two or three leash fights and is now fine on leash though I rarely use it.... I am sure as she moves into her teens we will have more fits, but now she knows that the pressure goes away if she stops fighting it.

Puppyhood influences so much of the adult dog's personality that I try to make it as positive a time as I can. If the pup shows fear or discomfort I will introduce whatever it is slowly and as positively as I can. we have all tried to rush things with our dogs and we have all ended up spending even more time fixing those mistakes.

Patience and consistency are the dog trainer's best tools. Yet most if us forget about them from time to time.

Demeanor and attitude of the trainer are a huge influence on the dog's behavior. I carry myself with an attitude that I won't take any crap from the dogs and they respect that. My rules will be followed whether they like it or not because that is just the way life is. Remember as a kid your parents saying "because I say so" whenever you asked why you had to do something? Same deal here with the dogs- because I say so and there is no arguing or negotiating about it.

I want to reiterate that I am not there and I can not see the behaviors, so I may be way off base- I am just throwing some ideas out there that may or may not work.