I have a similar situation with my new 9mo old pup. She'll drop to a down after she sits sometimes. What I do to prevent this is reward her the second her butt hits the ground, before she has a chance to drop down. Then keep rewarding every couple of seconds as long as she is still sitting. If she drops to a down when she's supposed to be sitting, I don't reward it. So, what I would suggest for you, is give your boy the "down" command, and reward the second he is in his down, before he has a chance to roll over. If he rolls over, do not reward. Move on to a different command for a few minutes, then try the down again.

Sounds like you live in a great place! I miss the small town life....

How about working him a parking lot? Or could you have the other dogs' owners walk their dogs around while you work him? Or get some kids to come play frisbee in the field... Basically add anything you think may distract him.

Not sure about the video covering the pinch collar. (I'm sad to say I don't own the video yet) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . I'm sure someone else on the board will know.

As far as the rolling over on the down command - Lisa has some great advice. Remember that rolling over is submissive behaviour so don't correct him for doing it. Instead, reward the down the moment he's in the right position and ignore the rest.

Heather

Hi all, i am new to this board. I have 2 Shepherds: 1.5 yrs and 2.5 yrs old (soft, low drive)

I was wondering what you all thought of this approach: for an adult dog who has learned that the "Come" command is optional (i.e. knows what it means but has been allowed to disobey repetitely).. what do you think of changing the command word , and starting from scratch with motivational training to this new command?

anyone ever tried this and how did it work out?

thanks,
michelle o'baugh

Michelle,
Very good thought process you have there, I have three commands for come, all mean the "basic" same thing, but diffrent words.
Come = come over here you (at any speed you choose, as long as it's now)
Heir = come like a lightning bolt and do a proper front sit when you get here.
Right Here = stop where you are going and come on over and walk with me in a hunting heel.

You can most definatly teach a new word and start from scratch on that.

Stella : at 3>5 the dog is a good canidate for the prong collar and i would do some directinal heeling where you walk and when the dog is an a comfortable postion i turn and go another way ,when the dog hits the end of the leash ,i say here , after that i would start some short come commands on a short leash ,after you have the dogs focus ,and not giving you the finger .Peter

I've posted this technique as a reply to similar questions in the past, although some folks on this board think it's bass-ackwards.

I taught my GSD (new to me at 18 mos) the recall command this way:

First, teach sit, down and stay. Then begin walking away from the dog in a stay. Only a few feet at first. You then deliver the recall command (whatever it is-my dog has 3 different ones that mean different things, too). Reward (probably food).

Basically, the idea is that the recall command means you MAY come to me, not you MUST. This is at first; once you get very good reliability, and he's enthusiatic about it, you can work on distractions and corrections for noncompliance, phasing out food rewards and making play/vocal rewards more prominent.

I highly recommend doing these first lessons in a tennis court; big fence, no escape, and no distractions (as long as there's no game going on!). This method took about 3 weeks for my dog to be coming in at 100 MPH. Another 2 weeks for reliability under distraction.

Remember to train for success. Training for success means to make certain you have control and can predict the outcome of your training. Never call your dog unless you have him on a long-line and he becomes consistent to your recall.

TRAINING THE INFORMAL RECALL

There is a significant difference of wanting my dog to simply return to me to be close and wanting him to return to me and sit perfectly in front of me as in a Front found in advanced obedience.

Remember you should use his NAME ONLY and not the word here or come.

Using his Name like – “MAAaaX” - Basically means get your butt over here and do it fast but that is it. No Sit Front or Here to Heel is required.

Part I

This training method uses instinctive motivators that will trigger a response in your dog to return to you as fast as he can as long as you have developed a good working relationship and bond. You should have done this by completing the previous lessons in this Foundation Training section.

If you have cheated and skipped the training out of sequence, you have done yourself a disservice. Go back and do all the lessons in the order they are listed even if your dog has prior training.

Many trainers give little thought to the natural order of training and the progressive building of a dog’s relationship with the owner in a way that it lends more to your relationship then simple obedience alone.

With the long-line in hand, have another person hold the line or half-wrap it around a post or tree. ------ Hook dog to his flat collar and walk away from your dog about 25 to 30 feet.

Turn around and call your dog's name over and over. Since he cannot escape the binding of the long line his anxiety will build to a peak of created separation anxiety.

Remember to use only his name. DON'T SAY HERE OR COME...EVER for this lesson.

Once he has a high level of anxiety built... Release your rope and him. Say good dog good dog all the way to you

Like a rocket he will come running. Praise him and food reward and praise him the second he makes contact into your arms.

Don’t show a reward before you release him. This is a bribe and we don't need bribes in this training. You are the main reward during this lesson. Over time the combination of his name, your voice, his anxiety and his reward of releasing his anxiety by connecting to you will fix in into an almost reflexive behavior.

So many people think they cannot be the reward for their dog. Naturally you can be.

Part II
It is very important to continue conditioning your dog in his understanding that he must come near you whenever he hears his name. His action and willingness to come to you upon hearing his name is further reinforced by the fact he gets a reward for his efforts.

Place your dog on a long leash or rope that is 8-10 feet long and pop in your favorite movie on DVD or VHS. Take a seat on your favorite movie viewing furniture and hold on to the other end of your dog’s leash.

Every time your dog wonders away callout his name give him a two pops on the leash. When he gets to you and establishes eye contact, give him praise (“good&rdquo a treat and go back to watching whatever you are viewing on your TV.

You can repeat this process for the entire movie but it seldom gets past a few minutes of training before your dog decides to stay beside you.

Our training goal is to train our dog to come every time he hears his name regardless of his own distractions.

The last post is from a section I give to novice trainers for helping their recall. When done correctly you will get a fast and efficient recall to the dog's name. Good luck.

Dennis,

Your description is great and clear. You did mention about Foundation Training and some sequence. Can you clarify those.
Thanks.

Do this.

http://www.leerburg.com/ubb//ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=138;t=000004#000016