Sorry if it seems as though we are being harsh about the issue of putting your dog down. If, someday, putting him down is in his best interest, then by all means, do not let him suffer. No one on this board is advocating that. We just get a little miffed if it seems someone wants to destroy a dog because it's a little "defective." This is senseless and cruel. But we do not want to see a dog suffer needlessly either. However, I do not think that is the case with your dog. It sounds like he will just need a little extra TLC.

As far as neutering, you mentioned he was 2 yrs old. You shouldn't have any problems with neutering at this age. No noticable change in personality or anything like that. The risks involved are no greater than if he were younger. At this point I would definitly reccommend neutering. Even if his elbows were ok, I would be suspicious of some other genetic issue if the rest of his litter was still born. Who was his breeder?!? You said he was of seiger lines. Who was his sire and dam?

If you are interested for the future and have your heart set on show/seiger lines, I can reccommend one or two breeders that are excellent and fully guarantee their dogs in writing (and cost a heck of a lot less too). PM me if you are interested.

Good luck with your boy!

This dog was not from a stillborn litter.

Originally posted by Alex Artemenko:
This dog was not from a stillborn litter. Yes, the breeder told us that the litter that we had money down on was all still born. We should have had him xrayed before we got him. Now, we are way to 'invested' in him...

I've revealed the name of the breeder to someone here and they commented that the breeder really dosn't appear to have a 'breeding program'. In hind sight, the 'program' seems to be to get alot of money for poor or average 'products'.

But, I'm venting and it's my own opinion... We were looking to get into the breeding business and found out that it's alot harder to get started then we thought. We love puppies and love the breed.

The best dogs we have ever had were shepherds...

My dad told me that even as a very young child in Germany, I had a seiger trained gsd who would grab me by the leiderhosen (sp) and drag my wandering butt back into the yard. I wish I could remember that.

Anyway, thanks. We'll have to deal with it. Perhaps in the spring we will be looking again.

One question, is it better to have a female or a male? We assumed that owning the male would be better somehow. Should we get a pair (m/f) and raise them together? We are building a new house with an indoor kennel.

Thanks...

Personal opinion of course, but great breeders' programs hinge on excellent BITCHES. You can go to any male in the world that you want to mate with, but finding a top notch female that produces well is the hard part. You don't need to own the male - just rent his services.

I can't agree with what Lee said more. You need a bitch, not a dog.

I am also a firm believer that you will be far better off if you buy an adult female than if you attempt to raise one from a pup with the intentions of breeding. If after 2-3 years of working with and raising a pup are you going to be able to be objective enough to say "well, she isn't really something I would want to breed, I will try again"

If you would 'like to' breed but it is not a must than a pup is ok. As you have already found health issues (and HD isn't the only one) can be a road block. If you buy an older bitch you can rule most of them out (notice I said most)

=====================

as a side note of the events of the last 48 hrs here with my first litter, I have to admit that anyone who does this HAS to be a little crazy.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Deanna Thompson:

as a side note of the events of the last 48 hrs here with my first litter, I have to admit that anyone who does this HAS to be a little crazy.

Or a LOT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . Good luck with the litter, enjoy every moment of it.

I am going to throw a monkey wrench into this conversation. It’s not directed at Robert, if he decides to breed, all power to him. It’s just a friendly warning to all who "would like" to breed.

I bred my first litter after ten years of heavy involvement with GSD. I did my homework and had a great litter. The whelping was a breeze, the mother was wonderful, pups all healthy w/great temperaments. This is also probably the last breeding I will ever do.

We only hear about "bad breeder" horror stories, but there is the other side of the coin--idiot consumers, and I sure had my share of them...to the point where I pulled the ad from the paper, sold two pups to people I knew & trusted and kept two. Here’s a short sampling of questions/demands I had to deal with:

The most often asked question: "How big will the dog be?" I inform them that they will be on a large side, but still within the standard, hopefully. "How heavy will they get?" 65-70 lbs for a female, 95 for a male. "Oh no, I’m looking for 120/140". Don’t even try to educate them--everyone seems to have an uncle or a neighbor with a 140 lbs male and that’s what they want, by golly.

2. "I’m looking for a guard dog". What kind of a "guard"? "Like personal protection". Do you have a trainer? "Oh, yeah". And who is the trainer (since I know all of them in this area)? "Oh, it’s just me and that other guy". Next.

3. "I will never pay more than $150.00 for a dog." Next.

4. "I am looking for a black&red dog for my brother, he wants to do SchH." Yipeee, finally something I can relate to. What level are we talking about? "Oh, top level competition". Why, may I ask, does the color matter? "He already had B&T, sable and bi-color. Now he wants black&red. :rolleyes:

I had a rejection from a buyer with three kids ages 6 to 12 because the dam was too friendly.

Then you get the "educated" lot who want a guarantee against every genetic disease, real or imaginary, plus the longevity of every dog in the pedigree for the last 5 generations.

Then you get calls & e-mails from competition pretending to be buyers just to feel you out and diss your dogs.

Then you get out-of-state buyers swearing that the money order is in the mail, please don’t sell the puppy, go ahead and book the flight just to find out a week later that they happened to walk by a pet store and saw the most beautiful shepherd in the world, no shipping charges.

And I can’t even tell you how many times I had an appointment set up and people not showing up without having decency to cancel.

Anyway, this is just the tip of the iceberg. My club member had half of her litter returned, one pup with severe hip injury and had to pay for airfare. Are you sure you are ready for this?

LOL, I've gotten a few of those with my litter now!

1) Vietnam handler looking for one of those type dogs he had then, most dominant in the litter. Oh but it's too much money. Wanted a top dog for no $$

2) Gotten the weight question, how big question too.

3) Get the "any solid blacks" um, I have a red sable female and black sable unless one is recessive I don't think so.

4) Then you get the ones you call back and don't even know the diff between american, show and working. Those are fun ( you forgot that one)

5) My favorite is a correction office said he was coming on a Sat to see dogs. Never heard from him, no show, etc. He called later in the wk said he had surgery (whatever) and that he would come by the next day. Guess what? No show. This time though gave him cell phone number and told him to call if he was on his way and I went and did what I needed to get done, since weekends are about the only time I do have free. Haven't heard from this guy since, lol.

6) Then you have the pup that you agree to sell (no $, no contract yet) and have to back out due to things you find out later about the future home and don't feel comfortable with. And the person who picked the dog out for this buyer is a friend/coworker of yours.

Sounds like fun huh!

 Quote:

Originally posted by Renee Felknor:
Or a LOT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . Good luck with the litter, enjoy every moment of it.

I never pretended that I wasn't nuts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I am already enjoying the little turds... Hard to belive at two days they wag their tails while sucking away... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />Lucky (or unlucky) for me there are only two (thus the c-section) so finding homes is not a problem.

At any rate, I forgot to mention earlier, the idea of buying two pups(m/f) to breed down the line is a really bad idea. First off, trying to raise two young dogs at the same time is a HUGE amount of work and secondly you can not know what strengths and weaknesses you will need to compensate for at 8 weeks of age (the time you would be 'picking' your puppy).

No matter what you decide to do there is always a risk involved. This is a lot worse than the lottery. Welcome to Animal Husbandry 101. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LOL..You guys are so right about some of these buyers..The whole size thing is the exact reason I kept my black dog. I was so afraid to sell him because everyone that called wanted the biggest male out of the litter because they were going to breed their female to it...Finally I said he's sold. Then the price thing..Can you imagine walking into a Mercedes dealership ask for their most expensive car fully loaded and say I only want to spend 10,000 on it. Hell that's just the deposit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

p.s. We expect to see some pictues of the pups Deanna..Congrats on the litter.

Since I have gotten alot of attention, I'll ask some newbie questions...

How do you know that the stud (or bitch) is what the person say they are. Do you ask for xrays or something? How do you know the quality of the dog for mating?

How do you get the 'deed done' if the dogs aren't into it? I've wondered that about our current male. He has never acted the least bit interested in the opposite sex. I kept wondering what I'd do. It's not like you have alot of choices... Immitation/demonstration probably wouldn't do much (for the dog)...

What do you do when things go wrong? I mean you see the dog tied up in the front yard with no water and want to off the bastards that bought it. Or they train it for fighting or something heinous...

Maybe my wife and I need to rethink this breeding thing... Originally our plan was to give pups to friends that are looking. I'd hate to see anything bad happen to any puppy that I brought into the world...

Thanks for the responses... It's giving me more info on the breeding end of dogs...