Sorry forgot this part. Bruno eats after we do, is not allowed in the dining room while we eat. Gets no people food whatsoever with the exception of an occassional egg in his dry food. He goes up and down steps after everyone else. In and out of doors last and only after sitting each and every time. The Leerburg method worked great to keep him from running out of the door after something. He is never allowed on furniture, never gets pet unless sitting. The behaviorist advised to do away with his crate as he would charge the door so we did. I am slowly trying to re-introduce the crate to alleviate his nightime issues. I only feed him in his crate but at this moment he will not go all in. He'll stretch to reach the back. Today I pushed him in for 5 minutes, first time since we took the crate away last summer. I'm working on that one. When lounging his must stay at my feet or on leash. When walking he stays by my left side unless released to play (only when area permits). He has never been aggressive to any other dog and only growled once at another person (a trainer in his basic obedience class). He's completed basic, and 2 advanced obedience courses with the Southern Maryland Dog Training Club and earned his CGC. He used to play with toys but we picked them all up. Now he doesn't seem to interested in them. The only thing he chews is undesirables from the bathroom trashcan when someone forgets to keep him contained or leashed (does not happen often). Any other suggestions on this aggression thing?

OK, I am no expert, and have not had perfect success with my chow mix, who is far more aggressive to strangers and some other dogs then your dog, but who also used to growl at my kids. She has improved immensly since we have taken greater control of her life, and the DD collar helped a lot. The e-collar will probably help a great deal more, once I am more practiced.

She never growled at me or my husband. She is a bully, and I think your dog is trying to run your lives every time he growls. So, I would not try and distract him, I would meet him head on if he showed that much dominance. Now here is where we wait and see if the experts on the board jump on me. Maybe if you are too forceful with this dog, you will get badly bitten, I cannot possibly judge, but I strongly suspect that the dog is not going to change behavior if "re-directed". One thing I did do is use commands to distract her when she appeared ready to charge another dog, and also used treats to help desensitize her on walks, always with obedience. Our dog never threatened the adults in the family, so we felt secure in correcting her.

LOL. I've been victim of the Forum Nazi's before as well but on pethobbyist. It got to the point that I quit posting because one person would not leave me alone. Anyway, I really was expecting better results from the dominant dog collar. I have recently used the Dogtra and even last night saw a huge difference. He growled at my youngest for ASKING him to move so she could get by. She told him no and I stimmed him. "Don't trust their judgment or timing as I'm the only one puttin in the time to train". The next time she asked him to move, not a peep.

??

Eric,

No matter the device, you must give a correction that your dog will respect/remember. My dog has an occassional lingering dog v dog aggressin problem. The link below shows a time when I had to use a dominant dog collar on her for aggressive behavior. It had to be a correction she would remember - as she can balance well and stand/walk on her hind legs, she must be lifted entirely off the gound. Thankfully she is small and rarely aggressive. This was the only time I have had to do this with her - hopefully never again.

Anyway, it seems you have found a training tool you are comfortable with and your dog remembers. Kudos to you for not giving up the first time something didn't work as planned.


http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/2021/abbyhangbw8rd.jpg

OK........the whole lifting off the ground thing sounds almost abusive but.....I guess only to someone who has not walked in our shoes. I've seen Ed Frawley use this method in his video but only for a dog that was handler aggressive and he used another person. Man, I really do not want to do the wrong thing with this. You may be right about not giving a good enough correction, only thing is he weighs right around 90 pounds. Believe it or not he is not fat. His dad was a monster, muzzle the size of a coffee can. I think I'll watch the video again to see if there is a small detail I missed. Either way, the end always moves back through the ring making it a difficult task to even use the DD collar. The only problem is he is only aggressive inside the house. Ed has another person lift the dog from a tree branch. He lets the dog bite a hidden sleeve, then tells the dog no while someone else pulls him up. I can't creat this sort of contraption in the places where he is aggressive. Hopefully the Dogtra will help with this. If anyone reading this has another idea, please let us know.

DZ

IMO, The point of corrections in training is to make them so you never need to use them again (in theory). I believe that ineffective corrections are abusive as they must be repeated constantly, usually the dog doesn't understand why and they damage the bond between dog and owner. I much prefer to use one effective correction - and of course, "effective" varies widely for each dog!

Now if I had used the collar because my dog was not performing well in weight pulling or obedience, THAT WOULD BE abusive! I reserve the dominant dog collar correction for aggression.

If the remote trainer is working for you and your do - use it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> A remote trainer is a valuable tool - if I had one on my dog that day, the whole situation could have been avoided. (Yes - bad, unprepared me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Here's what I've found to work with regards to food aggression. Temporarily put the dog's bowl away and hand feed all meals. To start out, drop one bite of food from your hand onto the floor in front of the dog. Wait until s/he eats that bite and looks up at you to drop another. You can gradually increase the amount of food given at one time. Alternately, if the dog won't bite, you can feed, starting with one bite at a time directly from your hand. If the dog may bite, feeding from the hand would be the second step. The next step is to reintroduce the dog's bowl and, starting with one bite at a time, drop the food into the bowl, waiting until the dog looks at you before giving another bite. As the dog becomes more comfortable and starts learning that your being near her food doesn't mean she'll lose the food you can start allowing her to eat from the bowl while you hold the bowl. The final step is to return the bowl to the floor for him to eat from but getting the dog's attention and dropping a special treat into the bowl from time to time. This method (1) teaches the dog that you control the food, and (2) that you/your hands coming near or into his/her food dish means something good is happening.

oops - I should clarify, I was not referring to food aggression, but to handler and dog v dog aggression. What Elaine describes for food aggressin has worked for me, along with feeding the dog in a crate. Thank you for pointing this out Elaine!

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He is aggressive around food or when laying down. We leave him alone when he's eating but he likes to lay on the cool floor of the kitchen. We'll go in the kitchen for kitchen purposes and he will stand and growl/bare his teeth. If we go in and pass him or turn our attention to something else he stops. He's like this around his pas as well.

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Older, shoot, he's been growling at us since he hit 4 months old. We have the dominant dog DVD, DD collar and have seen a behaviorist. Basically what we've been told is to try and re-direct him prior to growling. This works for the most part but some times it takes longer, mostly at night. He used to growl and approach us when we got off the couch, that was around 6-8 months old. He went after my 15y old daughter and I got to him first and convinced him otherwise. For awhile we would get his attention and have him come to us before getting off the couch and he'd be fine.

I'm trying to go with Ed's advice, an aggressive dog should be fed in the crate. The trick is getting him to accept the crate again without building his scepticism or bringing back memories of whatever made him aggressive IN the crate from before. I tried hand feeding him for 2 months with no problem. As soon as the bowl was introduced, he started growling again. We even moved his bowl to the living room so no-one was around him while eating. Hopes that he would feel more relaxed and not have the urge to gaurd his food. After about 45 days we started slowly walking by the living room while he ate and he would stop to growl at us every time. We've just conceeded that we'll completely leave him alone while eating and he'll only get his food from the crate. Our kids are mid / late teens anyway so I don't have to worry about little ones. When someone brings theirs over, Bruno gets put away where little curious fingers cannot find him. We used to share popcicles with Pivo, he loved them. I tried doing this with Bruno last summer and when I went to take a turn he'd turn into "Superjerk"

Typical scenario: Bruno likes to lay in the walkway between the fridge and the wall. I go to tell him to move so I can get by. He'll start growling AS he gets up and moves to the opposite corner (a place we put him to keep him out of the way while filling his food bowl or when sharing the kitchen). Same scenario with my wife but with a slight bit more resistence. Now, my kids have not been anywhere near as involved with his training as I have been so they don't know when a more stern approach is warranted or when he can simply be distracted. They aren't sure when it's appropriate to praise him under these circumstances so; he'll get up and turn and face them. Growling, teeth showing, lips curled back and everything. They have to tell him "Go" probably 5-10 times before he'll even turn towards the corner. This works in the end but I'm not comfortable with it. If I could stop one of his aggression issues this would be it. I'm not usually home when they are dealing with him so this is my most important issue.

He and I have had some wall to wall counseling issues in the past, the whole "You need to show him whose boss by immobilizing him". I think to a degree this has established my seniority with him but no-one else. When he was 4 months old my wife was the main one at home with him during the day. They would go at it and she would try to, I think it's called "Alpha Roll" Bruno. Basically sit on top of him and make him lay on his back until he submitted. I REALLY think this just made him resent her in the long run. Now that he's so much stronger she has to resort to the 5-10 "Go" just like my kids. Basically this is our worst issue. I'm going to get more into using the collar and I'll keep you all posted.

Thanx for the help and as always if anyone has any other methods, please post.

DZ

FYI, I'm going to start a separate thread in hopes to get a bit more attention to the subject rather a spin off from this choke/check chain subject. Please post to the new thread as I thouroughly enjoy your responses.

DZ