well.. I'm guessing it depends on the breed, but some dogs marks will show, like Saint Bernards. Defintiely depends on the breed. For saints, you want a show dog for breeding. Malamutes.. working.. Other breeds, do research.

Well. If you consider drafting a work task I don't think a Saint would be difficult to judge. Though I guess there could always be one of the genetic problems which occur.

I know many of my posts mentino saints and malamutes. They are like ying and yang for standards in my view.

Calibre GSD? Where did ya get that from? I actually have not yet decided what breed I wish to focus on. There is the just pick one and stick to it attitude, but I'm one of those people who wil spend a whole year collecting information on many breeds just to decide even if its a pet.

Right, I agree with the wanting a pet and maybe wanting to become more. Which is why I'm thinking about tubal ligation or vasectomy. They are both reversible. I'm not sure if the tubes attaching the testicles would grow, but Its something I'll hav e to research. Reversible surgery is expensive, but I think the people should get another dog if they're truely thinking about breeding. If they breed, they'll still have many dogs running around.

The problem is if I think about breeding a large-giant dog, they'll most likely be pets. Some will be working(drafting, SAR?, depends.) and others will be pets. I don't know of anyone who seriously uses Saint Bernards for work. Most are pets, and those of which are disowned go to the rescue lady's house.

 Quote: David Ross

well.. I'm guessing it depends on the breed, but some dogs marks will show, like Saint Bernards. Defintiely depends on the breed. For saints, you want a show dog for breeding....

Calibre GSD? Where did ya get that from? I actually have not yet decided what breed I wish to focus on. There is the just pick one and stick to it attitude, but I'm one of those people who wil spend a whole year collecting information on many breeds just to decide even if its a pet....

Forgive me, I thought you were interested in GSD's since this is a mostly GSD forum, and if people here don't have GSD's they generally have other working breeds. You won't find a lot of support here if your plans are to breed conformation dogs (with their destiny being dependent largely upon their markings).

I think it's great you are doing your research. You should pick a breed you like and work with that breed for SEVERAL years before even considering breeding, though. What are you looking for in a dog? Big or small? Working or pet? Long or short hair? A potentially dominant guardian breed or a breed that's friendly and submissive?

You seem to like Saint Bernards. So maybe consider getting a Saint Bernard from a good breeder who is willing to mentor you, teach you how to handle a dog in the conformation ring (if that's what floats your boat) and you can then start thinking about breeding.

You seem like you're doing your research, you're just sorta going about it all backwards. Anyway, best of luck whatever breed you choose and whatever you wish to undertake with said breed.

Which is why I tell everybody maybe in 4-5 years I'll breed.
I'm actually not sure. I don't want a hardcore protection dog. If I bred them then home users would want them, which they really don't want them. Those type of people need a gun, not a ppd. Too many at the rescues and shelters already, only because some idiot thinks he/she needs a ppd. GSDs are okay, they are playful like malamutes on workingdogforum I was kinda surprised when someone showed me a GSD from teh DDR lines, they're HUGE. I don't think a GSD would do well at drafting however.

Well I don't really thing a large-giant dog will be giong through many trials which isn't showing or drafting. There aren't many events which these dogs can actually participate. Can you imagine a mastiff performing Schutzhund? I mean sure maybe saints could still be used for SAR in the glaciers, but I don't think any authority would come to me asking for puppies.

I'm mainly looking at a dog/or dogs which can perform drafting, even if they're going downhill, like Saints and Malamutes. *ghrr* these malamute breeders are making puppies and saying stuff like.. "Why giant? because they're huge!" *GAHGAGHAGAH** that isn't why malamutes exist, they exist to pull..

I'm one of those people who only get a dog to work, and maybe be a part time pet. I don't like kickmes, and I don't like these fad designer dogs. Definitely a dog which can run with me on the beac. I have sparactic running times as my knee likes to be in pain every once and a while, which kinda killed my want of breeding my own malamaute team to go skijoing and sledding, it would kill my legs.

I think Saint bernards are okay. Too bad irish wolf hounds are only single coat, they are great minded and well behaved dogs. Don't know what work a iwh could do for me though. 7 years lifetime as well sucks.. doesn't matter if you neuter/spay at any age, it is on average 7 years.

yeah, I found all the breeders who are reputable for certain breeds. Many reputable ones will tell you about drugs like FishMox, Fishcillin, FishFlex, etc. The vets get disgusted when you start mentioning them, or any other medical procedure you perform at home *chuckle*.

I know some of the peopel on workingdogforum are here as well, Some mods, others users. I don't care if pulling a sled and some fat guy is not considered "work" by certain people. drafting and sledding is work.

I forgot to mention the only reasons I have Malamute and Saint on the top of my list is because of the work ability and they've double coats. There are other breeds, but I think they would be too much maintainence. I looked at newfies, and decided the health problems are at higher risk than saints. Also newfies hair seems to require plenty of grooming.

downsides
malamute - two sizes, std and giant. giant mostly for market
saint - health issues, 2 coat types, higher risk of HD
newfie - constant grooming because of snow.

there really aren't any mastiffs beside the saint I'd be interested. There is the English mastiff,but they only have a thin coat, not really a snow type dog. Akita, GSD, Mal, and others would be okay for this type of weather too, but they aren't drafting dogs. and no, I don't want to get a 1) horse or 2) 4 wheeler. Those aren't fun.

Am I missing something? I've never heard of standard/giant malamutes...is that an AKC thing?

First of all, I don't think you should be even thinking about breeding until you've owned that breed for a looooong time. It's fun to think about the different breeds out there, but I don't think you can decide without having lived with the breed for at LEAST 5 years.

As for contracts, I didn't read through this thread super thoroughly so ignore me if this has already been mentioned - but I bought my manchester terrier from a woman who sells her puppies on limited registration, and once the puppy is 2 years old, (if you want to breed), she comes by and assesses your dog. If you pass, she gives you full registration and lifts the spay/neuter obligation on the condition your dog has a title- but it costs just as much as buying your puppy in the first place and she has to approve the stud/bitch you're going to use. Luckily, manchester terriers are one of the cheaper breeds.

Her set up would be a royal pain in the ass, and fortunately I have no intention of ever breeding. I sort of suspect that people who really want to breed just for the money or whatever will go against the contract anyways, though.

are you planning to make these dogs outside dogs in homer, alaska?

if so, you probably should stick with the sled dog types.

if the dog is going to be in the house at night, there is no reason you can't get an english mastiff. aside from the fact that they DO have double coats, they love the snow and cold. i've had them for 40 years, living in both michigan and montana. the line i have now is a working line, with lots of carting, drafting, and weight-pulling in the line. i'm working with my EM now on skijoring.

 Quote:

Can you imagine a mastiff performing Schutzhund?

actually, yes. can show you a picture, too. but if you are interested in shutzhund, you should look for a different breed.

with any purebred, it's hard to find long-lived lines that are healthy. they all have serious health issues, especially the giant breeds. you have to shop very carefully for a breeder, but there are sound, healthy giants out there, including irish wolfhounds.

if you might be interested in EMs, PM me. i don't breed, but i could refer you.

David,
quote:
"Too many at the rescues and shelters already, only because some idiot thinks he/she needs a ppd."


I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. What *facts* are you basing your statement on?
( having been the Chairman of an Animal Control Board of a fairly large area, I can pretty much break down into categories the reasons dogs are surrendered, I'm interested where you've gotten this idea from......)

I've known at least 3 people in TN which bought a PPD and ditched or turned the dog in to the std "backyard chained up" dog. It displeases me at the people ditching the dogs. I know PPD dogs dont' fill the shelters, there are plenty of kapoodles or whatever they're called .

std is 60-90lbs female, 60-100lbs male

giant is much higher, there have been 200lb malamutes
Currently bred for market, I don't see a point of a 200lb malamute unless it can seriously pull its weight.

If you read my reply to somebody, I said 4-5 years. I figure if I like the dog in the first 2 years, I'll get a bitch and see how I like two dogs making the fearsome duo of trouble.

yeah, The method was mentioned before.

From what I've asked of the methods breeders controlled. here are the methods.

1) Sure, you can have full breeding rights, but please read up to what you're doing and don't make mistakes.
2) Full breeding rights with co-ownership
3) Full breeding rights, you have full ownership but have to furfill the contract of obtaining a championship
4) Limited breeding rights until you start showing?
5) limited breeding rights until you know the personality/etc of the breed is what you want then full reg.
6) limited reg, you can do what you want with the dog
7) limited reg, the dog will be ligated/vasectom'ed before he gets to you

8) you can have the dog if I can attach a gps cell phone and watch where the dog goes 24/7 (j/k, see the 8) <-- )

I know they're double doats, the short coats and it worries me. An american mastiff is my neighbor's dog. He loves to play in the snow, I've never seen him get snow pact between his toes.

if the dog is in the house at night. heh Well that is how my girl sleeps, inside. She is definitely not a bed dog, I forbid it. Hell no , no no, never ever. Hmm, well I live in Homer, AK. One of the warmest Alaska cities you can live. currently 20F, at the worst temperature which may be -2F. Youmight actualyl get more snow than I do. Homer is right by the ocean, so we don't get snowed as much. Heck, people surf.. during the wintter! We have some good ski spots as well, I happen to get plenty of snow since I live off the city a bit.

Using a EM to skijoing? 8o Would only take 1 to pull me around(in the snow, not sidewalk), I'm 138lbs. I'd go flying for sure. You ever use cross country skates and go for a ride?

please scan or send the picture, I'd love to see that one. Would go in my funny folder.

"with any purebred, it's hard to find long-lived lines that are healthy"
Malamutes are the most hardy dog you'll ever come across. Bloat and HD are the only bad "things" you'll have to worry about. Std malamutes are only 70-80lb

I don't know about EM. I didn't actually look in to the breed a great amount except for medical which didn't have many problems. I was reading on larger dogs and weight pulling. Have any of your dogs developed joint problems from pulling large loads?