Quote: Natalya Zahn

Hey Connie, not to sidetrack too much, but did you catch my question to you a few posts previously, about Rimadyl vs. other NSAIDS? Any thoughts?

Thanks!
~Natalya

Oh. No, I hadn't seen it. Sorry.

Without looking it up right this second, I think I read that Rimadyl had more adverse reactions reported in its first year of use than all the rest had over a much longer time span. Sorry -- that's vague, and of course time in use doesn't equal number of uses.

I'll try to find that report later.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Oh. No, I hadn't seen it. Sorry.

Without looking it up right this second, I think I read that Rimadyl had more adverse reactions reported in its first year of use than all the rest had over a much longer time span. Sorry -- that's vague, and of course time in use doesn't equal number of uses.

I'll try to find that report later.

No worries! Thanks!

No, I didn't get to ask about Adequan. I wanted to research it a bit myself before asking the vet about it. (Just so I don't go in there completely ignorant and know what kinds of questions to ask.)

I e-mailed Star's breeder in the States today to ask her if she has any experience with NSAIDs and bullmastiffs, but she said she has never had any dogs with hip problems so she's never had to give her dogs any pain killers at all. We had talked previously about Star's hips and she said that bullmastiffs are such heavy dogs that it really could just be growing pains. But the fact that Star can hardly get up on her hind legs in the morning seems that it would be more than just growing pains.

It's really too bad that two dogs who have never had any problems with hips, joints, mange, or anything can be bred and produce a puppy with all of the above. We love our little one and would never trade her for the world, but it seems we spend a whole lot of time at the vet!

I never did hear back from the makers of Fortiflex, I think I will try actually calling them tomorrow. It seems to me that if the chondroitin pills worked and she didn't have any problems with stiffness or pain while she was taking them, then the whole NSAID mess isn't really necessary anyway.

The thing that frustrates me, is, this orthopedic vet has heard me tell him over and over that the chondroitin pills WORKED and that Star was fine while taking them. But it's like he's not hearing me. He just wants to prescribe a potentially dangerous drug for something that a supplement might do the trick. He never even tried to come up with any other options to fix the PROBLEM, he just wants to give her drugs to numb the pain. (Or even find another other option for chondroitin, since the one she had been taking seems to need to be stopped for a bit.) That's just treating the symptoms, not the problem. I am not knowledgeable enough myself to fix the problem, that's why I'm going to a vet in the first place. But I just don't seem to be getting much help from this guy, who is SUPPOSED to know.

We didn't give Star the Previcox tonight - we weren't home this evening and didn't want to give her the pill and then not be there to monitor her. We will give her 1/2 of a pill tomorrow after she has eaten breakfast and the other half in the evening. I read that giving only half at a time might not irritate her stomach as much. If she has any bad reactions to it again, I'll stop it immediately.

I've written another book again... I know you guys really do understand, and there's nobody on this side of the world that I can talk with about it. My husband is not a "hasher", so he's done hearing me try to figure it out. He just says "when you have found the solution, let me know."

Thanks again! It's midnight on this side again, so I'll read the link you posted from the US FDA, Connie, and then I'm going to bed. I'll let you know what I find out tomorrow. Goodnight!

Brenda, I didn't read every bit of every post, but did read where the chondroitin helped your dog and that you were told to take a 60 day break from it. Taking a break makes no sense to me, as dog supplements of glucosamine and chondroitin are to be taken on a daily basis. Also I've taken the above for months at a time, no problems.

I have great suspicions about doctors and vets. It seems 99.9% of them DO NOT believe in supplements of any kind, even vitamins (and we all know vitamins are NEEDED, and we get them from food). Mention vitamins to a doctor and they dismiss it or "pooh-pooh" it.

If something was helping my dog and after research I couldn't find any reason why not to give it, I'd give it. If you search chondroitin on the internet and make sure you are on credible websites and find no warnings about taking it everyday, base your decision on that. Research and find out how chondroitin works and make up your own mind for your dog.

Remember that vets sell these prescriptions of pain killers from their office - they fill their own prescriptions right there - and they make money from it.

The "60 day break" from the chondroitin came from the manufacturers themselves. Not just the vet. I wrote to the manufacturer a few days ago asking them why - maybe there is some reason their specific product requires a break - but they never responded.

I spoke with my puppies' breeder in the States who in turn spoke with her vet she's been using for the past 20 years, and he said that if the chondroitin was working, stick with it. He said he's got some dogs on it for life - and it's only helped them, not hurt them.

Thanks Sandy!

I like that vet

Brenda, check out this website: http://www.hyperdrug.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FORTIFLEX
At the end of the description of the supplement it says "Use 1 tablet per day for one month. This regime may be repeated 3-4 times per year or given continuously." (Italics mine) That's what I would ask the manufacturer, confirm those instructions are accurate.

Oh, Sandy, you're awesome! It doesn't say that on the insert in the package, and in searching for it on the net I never saw that anywhere else. That's great! For some reason that just makes me really happy. thanks a bunch!

 Quote: sandy moore

Brenda, check out this website: http://www.hyperdrug.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FORTIFLEX
At the end of the description of the supplement it says "Use 1 tablet per day for one month. This regime may be repeated 3-4 times per year or given continuously." (Italics mine) That's what I would ask the manufacturer, confirm those instructions are accurate.

Good work, Sandy!!

 Quote: brenda mitchell

His response was, "whatever you heard, it's not true. Only Labrador Retrievers have side effects, but no other dogs.

I found some of the info that I read when Rimadyl's reputation was hitting the internet:

QUOTE:
Many breeds, including Labrador Retrievers, are represented in the population that has experienced side effects or a fatal outcome from Rimadyl. Although the deaths and side effects reported on this site are only a representative sample, you will find many different breeds named in the reports. END
from http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadyl.html

http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadylfr.html

QUOTE: Carefully decide whether Rimadyl is appropriate for your dog by weighing the benefits against the risks. Keep in mind that it has been widely reported that many veterinarians are not fully informed about this drug. END

Also, “Insist on baseline tests and continued monitoring of the relevant functions during the entire time your dog takes the drug.”

“To avoid the gastric upset that occurs in some dogs, the drug should be given with food.”

From http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_rimadyl.html

“It is important that carprofen be discontinued and the patient evaluated in the event of upset stomach signs in case of this syndrome. “

There are also positive evaluations of Rimadyl, such as
http://www.drlarrypetvet.com/shop_arthritis.htm

But I think maybe the key point is this: "Carefully decide whether Rimadyl is appropriate for your dog by weighing the benefits against the risks. Keep in mind that it has been widely reported that many veterinarians are not fully informed about this drug."

Al and his vet (page one of the thread) went over the risks v. the benefits and made an informed decision. This is what seems to be be missing with the vet who said "Whatever you heard, it's not true. Only Labrador Retrievers have side effects, but no other dogs."

Fortunately, Brenda, you DO inform yourself.

These are very informative websites, Connie, THANK YOU! It was really kind of you to go to the trouble of looking it all up.

I have read so many conflicting reports on all of this stuff - it really is hard to know what is the truth. So many people speak "on authority" that it gets confusing (and then it's tempting get frustrated and quit researching all together. Even my husband says I should probably just quit, because first I read him one report and then read I him a different report, and he is starting to think that I'm wasting my time. I think until I know FOR SURE something is absolutely correct, I need to keep it to myself.) Without the internet I wouldn't have ANY information - and then I'd be stuck relying on the vet here .... I think I'll stick with the internet. :-)

I know it's not a waste of time - when I do what is best for my dog it will be well worth it in the long run.

I do know that this Previcox is not the best thing in the world for my puppy. She takes it and gets hyper for a short time and then sleeps the rest of the time. One minute she's laying around like she's not feeling well but then moments later she's up bounding around again. We only give her 1/2 a tablet about 45 minutes after she's eaten, and she's keeping it down and not throwing up, and her stools are soft but not runny at all. So that part is fine. But she still seems stiff, so it's not taking away all the pain.

My puppy's breeder's vet in the States said that if our puppy was there he would give her Rimadyl -- that even though he's read and heard all the bad things about it, he's never once had a dog have problems on it. On the other hand, he's a very hands on vet who does the proper blood tests and keeps a close eye on his dogs. He knows the stories and he makes sure that none of them happen to his patients because he takes all the necessary precautions. He even welcomed me to call him in the States any time and he would talk with me if I had questions. I really like that guy! It's too bad we don't have a vet like that over here!

Anyway, we'll give a few days for the chondroitin sulfate to kick back in again and I'm sure by then she'll be as good as new.

I'll keep reading the articles you posted Connie - thanks again! I'll keep you posted!