Patrick,

With the larger dog if you manage to get to the side or behind the dog in a small area, the dog can't turn quickly enough. The smaller dog can. The issue may be brute force in a head on confrontation. The more agile dog can turn and react quicker.

If you look at what dogs were origionally bred to do, the larger dogs are all used for wide open spaces. Great Dane, Rott, Mastif breeds, most of the Guardian breeds, all are very large dogs designed to take down an opponent in the wide open spaces. The herding breeds used for pen work tend to be smaller. As the dogs are used in more open spaces they tend to get larger. The big dogs operate from the idea that they have all the time in the world to do their work. They just have to take it down and over power it, smaller dogs must react quickly in confined spaces to accomplish the job.

Ikor is right in that this is an issue of time. I'm sure he is familiar with "speed, surprise and violence of action". This is an excellent creedo for those COGNITIVE enough to PREPARE for the possibility of our hypothetical situation. Before this gets into the "my dog is bigger than...." I think he would also agree that the very first step is the decision to do something to prepare and not put trust in a world that does not deserve it. Choose not to be a victim. In the hypothetical, we can prepare for anything. When push comes to shove, have your mind and consitution prepared to fight. Some very good points were made and I have learned a thing or two myself. Thanks, guys.

Congratulations guys every post is in total agreement. We are saying the same thing in different ways. The smaller dog is more agile the bigger dog offers more brute strength.. Richard what you said about specific breeds is correct. But going back to the original post a man breaks into your house. I don’t know about your dogs but the two dogs that I have owned would be at the door the minute the doorknob is touched if not earlier. In my mind the scenario would be that the dogs are barking and the intruder breaks in the door. Also lets assume the dogs have nerves of steel and would be on the intruder. It’s a one shot deal. Who offers more stopping power a big dog or smaller dog? This reminds me of a conversation I had with my kids after watching the movie Gladiators. Who do you think would win a gladiator or samurai, French swordsman or a crusader ……?I guess its comes down to who ever applies their technique first. Back to the scenario it’s a head on collision dog and man. I’ll put my money on the bigger dog. There is no weaving and bobbing here the dog doesn’t need endurance. Of course this is all hypothetical and the outcome would be different each time.

Milt

The above topic is exactly why I have TWO dogs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I live alone so my opinion is safety in numbers. I also have to think if someone was to enter my house at night, in the dark and doped up they would not even have a chance to see my dog coming let alone having any accuracy if they were high or drunk. One of my dogs is solid black and at night in my house there's no way you can see him coming.

 Quote:

Originally posted by milt:
Congratulations guys every post is in total agreement. We are saying the same thing in different ways. The smaller dog is more agile the bigger dog offers more brute strength....
Who offers more stopping power a big dog or smaller dog....
Back to the scenario it’s a head on collision dog and man. I’ll put my money on the bigger dog. There is no weaving and bobbing here the dog doesn’t need endurance. Of course this is all hypothetical and the outcome would be different each time.

Milt

ok, not that I'm an expert or anything, but here's my take on it. We've got a "big bitch" (who is a rescue that I wouldn't count on to do any more than bark and run) and a "standard bitch" (who is a trained working lineage 60lb bitch) and 2 pups (one a 6mo bitch and a 11mo male). I would trust my 3yr old 60lb bitch to hold off an intruder long enough for me to get out of bed. So, I'll go with the speed and agility of a smaller dog, because if I need "stopping power", that's where the HK USP Tactical in .45ACP loaded with Hydro-Shoks comes into play.

Breed or size is secondary to the issue at hand. What counts is, will the dog do what you need him to do when it is time for him to step up and do it?

I once read an excellent analogy of what we are looking for in a young dog that we wish to use for such work:

Let's say we have a young athlete in superb physical condition with good intelligence...a swimmer or tennis player perhaps...good reflexes, sharp eyes, all the right tools...but he has never been in a fight in his life.

Let's set him down in a boxing ring with an experienced Golden Gloves contender. When the bell rings, he gets knocked flat on his ass by a right cross from our boxer! At this point, one of two things is going to happen; he is either going to say "I quit, you hurt me!", or he is going to get up and do his absolute best to give the other guy a dose of his own medicine.

You see,we can teach him HOW to fight...what we cannot teach is that willingness...even desire...for the fight. That must come from within.

Yes, there are other considerations where dogs are concerned, and training of the correct type from experienced people is certainly going to be required. Still one of the great "secrets" of dog training is to first pick the right dog.

There is much information out there on these topics, starting here on Ed's web site. Do not depend too much on your dog or any other single element of your security plan, rather, layer a "defense in depth", so if one layer is breached, they will be facing another and another.

This world we live in can be a very scary place, but we need not be terrified to go about our daily lives so long as we stay alert and aware of what is happening around us and use a dose of common sense. (Life can be both short and violent for people who do really stupid things!)

Last, a little plug for our cops:

Every day and night, all over this country, good men and women take incredible risks with their personal safety so the rest of us can sleep without posting armed guards on the perimeter. They not only risk their safety, but the very lives and futures of their families and loved ones.

They fight a thousand, thousand little battles each day, and we only hear about those few where someone's actions were less than perfect. Yet, who among us has made not one single mistake?

They, too fight a war. The battleground is, literally, our own back yard. It is squalid apartment complexes, stinking alleyways, high-dollar subdivisions, lonesome stretches of highway, farms, fields, woods, the street in front of your home. They see things no one should have to see, and do things no one else will.

If this war is ever lost, the very future of this nation will be lost with it.

Do not make overmuch of them...they are citizens like all of us. They know joy, sadness, courage and fear just as you do, and most are there because it is where they wish to be.

But save a small place for them in your hearts, and think about them now and then. For they, too, suffer casulties. They, too are warriors. They, too deserve your respect.

Ikor that was very well written post with substance and it came from your heart. You have a lot to contribute to this board with your experience and I am looking forward to more post. If you guys missed Ikors’ last post it’s worth reading.

Milt

Ikor:

Nice post.

Was reading through old posts and this one caught my attention. I think the size speed thing is realtive and most who wieghed in on the issue used broad sweeping generalizations. Ray Lewis is 250+ pounds and can outrun most 200 pound footbal players who have incredible speedand reflexes. He matches this speed with size and strength that allows him to have his way with most guys his own weight. Brian Urlacher and Lavar Arrington at 245+ can both run sub 4.5 forties, and I doubt that the average man is quicker up close and personal than either of them. At 6'9" 230 Larry Bird was slow as molasses running in the open but why is it that his first step would get him by guys that would lap him in a 40. At 350+ pounds Tony Siragusa is a fat tub of GOOO but I bet the average man would have a very tough time getting past him in a limited area of say 0-20 feet. Some people are just quicker (yes there is a difference between speed and quickness)than others.

Give me a fit, working dog that I know has sound defensive drive, proven protection abilities and sound bite training and I dont think it matters wehter the dog is 80 or 140 pounds. Size, quickness and speed are relative to the specific dog we are discussing. I think what matters is fitness, training, drive and good genetics.

BTW, how many people without dog training or dog experience could hit a dog with a base ball bat after coming through a door. It would take the nerves of Joe Montana, the concentration of Barry Bonds and the luck of a $320 million Big Game Lottery winner to get a full swing on a pissed off dog running straight for you in a tight space. Especially, after youve broken down the door and are incredibly pumped full of adrenaline. The dog would be on you as soon as you made it through the door.

If you do not put the dog or dogs into the different situtions in training, you are not going to get the results needed.
Training to protect the home or family member will need to be done using what ever situtions that you can envision the perpertrator trying to do! TRAIN/TRAIN/TRAIN

Your dog must be conditioned to respond to these conditions, if not you have let the dog endanger himself trying to protect you. This they do unconditionaly!!

Time/Time/Time/ Thats all most will give you, except their life trying to do something they were not prepared to do. If you are concerned about home safety do as all have said.
Set up layers of protection to give you time to react.

On hitting my old dog with a stick/ go for it, it only pisses him off more and he might not OUT!!
Then the AKITA bites. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Big dog or little dog, It's how much fight in the dog that matters!
Damn I got long winded. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

All post were well stated, that's what makes this Discussion Board fantastic.