Stop! You're making me tired!

The fact that you have kids young enough to still be walking them to school tells me a little about your age . I have a kid who walks HIS kids to school .

Lear and I used to train PPD twice a week, switched trainers and now it's just once a week. I do miss the twice a week schedule. It made it feel that there was always something going on, as well as it moving him forward in PPD work at a good pace.

Where we train is about 1 1/2 hours away. After training we stop at a schoolyard, fenced in, where a SchH club meets (so they allow dogs there). I throw the ChuckIt ball for him to give him a good workout. Other than that, it's walks almost everyday or going by car to different parks. Sometimes we go on hikes at a place I found but I feel it's risky (Phoenix is rather crime-invested and getting worse) so I'm not comfortable doing that.

Just cause Lear is being trained as a PPD doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally put myself and him in potentially dangerous situations and there's lots of places here that a person with common sense definitely wants to avoid. Unfortunately.

 Quote: sandy moore

Stop! You're making me tired!

Yeah, Geoff - whoah!!!

That's a wonderful schedule you have set up - Sasha is one lucky little girl!! I'm guessing you don't have to drive super long distances to get to your various training locations (herding, ring sport, etc.) - again, lucky. BUT, I will count myself in the just "get out and do ANYTHING with your dog" group and I totally agree with your argument - back in VT, every day was a trail run day, with swimming afterwards in the summer, and weekends were long slow hikes or just exploring new environments on foot. It was heaven. Oscar even got to go to work with me most days, so he got lunchtime strolls through farm country, running flat out through cow fields at what felt like the top of the world...

then we moved to Cambridge, MA. We're fortunate to have a lot of nice city parks within a few minutes of walking, but I totally sympathize with people who have trouble getting their dog a lot of variety in terms of exercise - or intense exercise period. I still run with Oscar almost daily, and there's a great reservoir with an off-leash woods trail around it, but I'd have to negotiate a lot of time and traffic to make it out to someone with sheep, and training clubs are a similar story. Not that I wouldn't be willing to do it once or twice a week, but every night would just kill me.

Plus, there are a LOT of dogs here - and if you choose to go to the parks, you're going to have company (I must say, 90% of the dogs we've met are quite friendly and good natured, but next to none are trained well, and if they're off leash, you bet they're coming over to say hi!). I think private areas are a nice idea for city dog peeps, and seeing people use them might even foster a little sense of responsibility in some of the owners who just un-leash their dogs and turn their backs to talk on their cell phones... who knows.

*All this discussion about the myriad things we do for our dogs (even those of us who AREN'T Geoff! :grin is making me a little sad for the very large population of suburban and city dogs who don't get a lick more than the walk around the block or the tie out in the backyard ... we (and our pups) have it pretty good...

~Natalya

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

...*All this discussion about the myriad things we do for our dogs (even those of us who AREN'T Geoff! :grin is making me a little sad for the very large population of suburban and city dogs who don't get a lick more than the walk around the block or the tie out in the backyard ... we (and our pups) have it pretty good...

It is sad, Natalya. I hear dogs in our neighborhood barking in their backyards and although I can't see through brick walls I just know they're left out back with hardly any human interaction. I never hear anyone out there with them, no talking, no training, no anything. Alone, and probably the only time they see their humans is when they bark too much or when they get fed (assuming they get fed regularly). It makes me sick to my stomach. Especially when it's summer and they're out there all day and night in this insufferable heat.

I, like you, try to give Lear as much diversity as possible in terms of exercise, different places to go and see and smell, and mental stimulation so he doesn't get bored. And he gets bored easily, very much like his mom . So we often drive around looking for places to visit that he hasn't seen yet.

Sometimes I get just downright tired of having to do it that way, but there's no choice where I live, it's the way I have to do it to keep him going and growing.

I NEED LAND!!! GREEN LAND!!!

I hear you girls! Actually I'm not a spring chicken myself. My new wife and I had the second load of kids later in life! New for her, old hat for me! I'm turning out to be a pretty good curmudgeon in my old age! I'm now on a disability pension so I do have the time to invest in the dog. If I didn't I probably would've bought a goldfish.

I have to drive 2.5 hours one way for French Ring and I have been sleeping over at our training directors on Friday nights to save on fuel costs. So it is a lot of time away from the family. I'd like to something closer but here in my town there is only the secret society of Shutzhund. It is increasingly hard to find like minded people without getting involved or being on the brunt end of club politics. I'm just not into that. I just want to have fun with the dog which is what it is supposed to about, right?

Sheep herding is an 1.25 drive one way and I usually bring my daughter so she can work the sheep with the dog. So on the drive there and back we can talk about the meaning of life. It's a lot of fun tiring but I know we are getting a dog that is well balanced because of all the positive stuff we do with her.

 Quote: "Natalya Zahn"

*All this discussion about the myriad things we do for our dogs (even those of us who AREN'T Geoff! ) is making me a little sad for the very large population of suburban and city dogs who don't get a lick more than the walk around the block or the tie out in the backyard ... we (and our pups) have it pretty good...

It is sad about all the other dogs out there that get their once a day walks if they are lucky and ignored for the rest of the time in the city. I promised myself I'd never do that if we got an animal, so far so good. To me it is all about a state of mind and commitment to your animal. Why do it 1/2 way? You shortchange the dog as well as yourself!

I'm reminded about a Cesar Milan episode where he had a owner of a lab that was tearing the heck out of everything. Cesar got them hooked up to a local trainer that did field trials with Labs and the couple hours a week they spent extra with their dog made all the difference in the world to that dog.

People need to think more of what their dogs were bred to do and try to inject some of that into the dog's lives. Taking a dog to an off leash dog park and turning your back on the dog so they can talk on a cell phone as Natalya said .. IMHO just doesn't cut it.

This is a very interesting topic.
I have never been to dog park but I imagine if done properly it could be a decent place to train with distractions.
I know my dog is dog (AB) aggressive, and I have enough trouble with idiot neighbors and their dogs. A few weeks ago a guy let his little dog off the leash in front of my 85lb American Bull dog. I have not doubt that if it was not for the training techniques I learned from Ed's videos and advice from this forum that little dog would be in doggy heaven. I have kicked more than a few dogs in attempt to protect them from getting to close Dori.

Back on topic.
Does anyone know a place to collect raw data on dog parks. There are allot of strong opinions against dog parks I am wondering if the opinions are factually based or based only a few bad experiences.
What I mean to say is what is the probability of a dog getting attacked in a DP? It may be that more there is higher PB in dog getting killed a car accident. It may also be that their is a relatively large probability of death or injury and that statistic favor a laws that restrict further off leash activity.

Feed back on this from those who have experience going to DP would be great. It may be in the interest of the city or state to fund independent research on this topic before using more tax dollars to build parks that help create more harm than good, or encouraging off leash walking of dogs.


To me this sounds like a great research opportunity for a school seeking grant money.

 Quote: Jeff Cambeis

I have never been to dog park but I imagine if done properly it could be a decent place to train with distractions.

But how? How can it ever be anything but a place where people who are strangers to you and whose training know-how is completely unknown to you come with their equally strange-to-you dogs under no control?

I should add that it's strictly MHO. I just do not trust the other guy with the uncontrolled dog. It only takes one.

But again, JMO.

One of the (many) problems with dog parks is that people don't just take their dogs their to exercise the dog. They take the dog there for the purpose of "socializing with other dogs." So they encourage and do not stop their dog from coming up to yours, they often have no idea what warning signs are from other dogs prior to aggression. People tend to get together and talk while their dogs run amok. Half of them with their backs turned just totally ignoring their dog and letting it do whatever it wants, totally oblivious to any squables, scuffles, or issues until it is too late with snarling, snapping, biting, and blood.

I have never taken my dog to a dog park and never will. For in a dog park you and your dog and your training DOES NOT MATTER! It makes no difference how well trained YOUR dog is - it only takes one person, one dog, one time to create a huge problem or serious injury. If you wouldn't trust a complete stranger to handle, walk, feed, and care for your dog, why trust a complete stranger and their dog when health and safety are at stake?

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Jeff Cambeis

I have never been to dog park but I imagine if done properly it could be a decent place to train with distractions.

But how? How can it ever be anything but a place where people who are strangers to you and whose training know-how is completely unknown to you come with their equally strange-to-you dogs under no control?

Like I said I have never been to one so I am using my imagination. I imagine a large park (several acres) with people and dogs walking . My dog on a long leash tied to a tree, in a relatively remote area, practicing obedience and focus.
Such a place may exist only in my imagination I simply do not know, or have enough curiosity to find out.
My family has several large parcels of land, and I live in a place with a very large supply of huge parks with plenty of wild life for distraction.

Personally I more concerned about the statistics of dog on dog incidents at dog parks then actually going to one.
With out data I personally find it difficult to form an opinion based only on personal experince. Personal experience is generally subjective and can easily be influenced by the opinions, and experiences of others.
A good example relative to this forum would be a person who happens get information about feeding raw a diet from persons who's dog choked on a bone or some other negative event.
That does not mean raw food it bad, it simply means something bad happened. The big picture of the benefit cost of feeding raw verse not feeding raw greatly favors raw.

I am not saying dog parks are a positive. It seems to me that this board and it members are fairly reliable source for accurate information. I would tend to agree, and avoid dog parks. I am thinking in the larger sense to improve the health of dogs in general and avoid injury as the result of ignorance.

If the larger % of people to attend dog parks for a positive experience statistical analysis might provide them with more accurate information to make a better informed decision.

I am thinking something like a large public lobby petitioning local government for public funds to build a dog park. Maybe the government should hold this group responsible for data collection at that park. The results can be posted publicly at the location, and If the park becomes a relatively large danger for animals rules can be adjusted.

If you want raw data Jeff you'll have to go someplace else to find it. The fact is most people take their dogs to the park as some kind of socialization experiment for dogs. Agression is only one reason not to frequent dog parks. Dog parks are wrong on more than one level.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy