Tammy,
Now that you mention it I have heard that hypothyroidism can cause aggression in dogs. I will take him in next week. I just hope that diagnosing this in dogs is more accurate than diagnosing it in humans as that is a real crap shoot.
thanks for the reminder,
Nancy

Deleted by poster.

Ignoramus has nothing to add.

As others have posted; I agree, a check up is necessary to rule out any possible medical issue.

In all honesty his change in behavior does not strike me as particularly unusual or sudden. Reading through all the posts a little more of your boys development is revealed. Maybe it will make you feel better to see the progression vs a "sudden" change in his behavior. I'll start backwards, because I think it will make more sense.

 Quote: Nancy Black

he hates the UPS man and barks whenever he hears the truck, but that is normal for him.

Normal behavior to become territorial; and not a huge leap to lunging or becoming territorial in areas you walk him frequently.

When did the UPS behavior begin and how have you addressed it?
I like a warning bark; but then make the decision to whether it stops or continues. If you have not worked on curtailing his behavior when this occurs; I'd recommend doing so.

As minor or infrequent as this may seem the continued practising of making the decision when he can react will spill over to other areas. JMHO.

 Quote: Nancy Black

Actually a similar incident happened about a week ago when we were out to lunch at an outdoor rest. we often go to. The rest. owner, who loves Kobe and feeds him bacon every time we go there, was moving tables and at one point he was a few feet from Kobe and for no apparent reason Kobe lunged at him. The man had just moved the table next to ours which made a loud screeching noise as it slid across the concrete floor, and we immediately assumed that the noise startled Kobe.

The first thing I noticed was that you frequent this restaurant. You mention the typical GSD is gentle with children; I'm 50/50 on that one. But (and again this is just opinion) I think a typical GSD does claim territory he frequents if allowed to and since the owner is a perfectly subservient bacon feeder why wouldn't Kobe take offense if he felt he got in his space?

 Quote: Nancy Black

We have walked that same path every day, 4 times a day for 2 1/2 years. Eerily enough, just a few seconds before the lady walked by a man, apparently her husband, walked by carrying a little boy. Kobe was completely calm and cool. Yet when the lady appears he loses it! And he had to have seen that she had a kid in her arms, and he is a typical GSD who treats children very gently.

Again an area he frequents and a dog's vision is not like ours so no knowing what he saw or how he perceived it but most likely he was reacting to a combination of things, smell probably being number one...lol maybe the UPS man wears the same perfume as the woman

And finally the most recent event, again note it is an area Kobe could consider his turf.

 Quote: Nancy Black

We had stopped to talk to a neighbor who Kobe loves and after a few minutes another man approached us who Kobe did not know. I was talking to the neighbor's wife and had my eyes off of Kobe and in a split second Kobe does the same bazaar thing to the man that he did last night.

Nancy,
It can be scary to see your dog react but believe me and reread the other responses because there isn't a GSD owner commenting on this thread who has not seen the behavior you mention in their own dog.....maybe that's typical bratty GSD behavior.

Forgive me if this sounds rude or judgemental but I think you might be overwhelmed a bit with your current life situation. Someone who has dedicated such time, care and love into her dog to be thinking about rehoming the dog when a problem has come up is someone who probably needs a breather before being able to take on one more thing.

I've been there as have many on this board so if you need help finding balance ask away; it amazes me how many on this board are able to fit it all in and remain sane.

 Quote: Sheila Buckley

It can be scary to see your dog react but believe me and reread the other responses because there isn't a GSD owner commenting on this thread who has not seen the behavior you mention in their own dog.....maybe that's typical bratty GSD behavior.

Sheila makes a very good point. As my previous GSD aged, I think she began to notice things differently, and then became anxious. For example, she would bark at unusual things my kids were wearing, like costumes or backpacks. By the time she was 10 years old, she would shake when they were yelling at each other (something they did from the time she was a puppy :crazy

Maybe the woman carrying a baby was unusual and your dog was warning people he knew about the stranger approaching.

In any case, vigilance on training to focus on you (and ignore outside distractions) as others have said would be the key here.

As dogs get older, sometimes we do let up on the training. We all need constant practice to be good at what we know.

Sheila,
While I really appreciate the time you took to write such a long post I have to say that I am somewhat floored to see you say that what Kobe is doing lately is "good ol GSD behavior". I do not buy that and I would bet alot of money that Ed Frawley would'nt either. Maybe you are not able to visualize what a large GSD lunging at you out of nowhere, barking like he is ready to take your head off looks like but it aint something I ever want to see again. And if this is "acceptable" behavior this GSD is out of here and I will never own another one.
The UPS man behavior makes a liar out of me when I said Kobe was a perfect dog, as he is wildly off the top with fierce barking and jumping on the door whenever anyone approaches our house. This started about a year ago and I have tried everything but to no avail. I have talked to alot of dog people who offered some advice but this dog is almost uncontrollable until either the person goes away or I open the door, then he is a bunny rabbit, many times will lay down and wait to have his tummy rubbed. And since he has NEVER shown any aggression to anyone after I open the door (I mentioned yesterday about his docile temperament to the UPS men when I open the door) I have learned to live with this unpleasant habit but I hate it because it obviously makes anyone who comes over who is not comfortable with big dogs wish they had'nt come to my house. When I know someone is coming over I put Kobe on the back porch to avoid the King Kong reception. I have used the ecollar a few times but he goes right through it or quiets down momentarily, but I don't feel good about zapping him for something he does not seem able to control, maybe wrong thinking on my part. And I put it down to excitement that someone is here to see him which is not unlike his normal love of people and attention. But I do see this obnoxious behavior as a hugh leap to the out and out aggression that he has shown lately as there has not been one occasion of anyone, friend or stranger coming to our house who was ever treated in any way other than friendly after he saw that I was OK with them being there. This could be a protection mode that motivates him to assume that they are "bad" people, who knows?
If your theory about the rest. owner is right, which honestly blows my mind, it would follow that everyone who is kind and lovable to him and gets in his space is in danger of being attacked. ???
Yes, I realize that smell can have a good/bad effect on a dog, I used to have a GSD who actually bit a man who had been using mariajuna. But your suggestive about the smell of the UPS man wearing perfume doens't work as Kobe starts his War Dance as soon as he hears the truck, and our house is almost a half a block from the road. Maybe he hates the damned truck?
I don't see anything rude or judgemental about what you say, but your defense of Kobe's behavior is sooo out of line with what I expect of my dog. And no matter how my current life situation is, which honestly is more like a fairy tale than anyone could hope for, happily married, great family ( except a couple of them don't like my dog) no money concerns, excellant health, no pressure, time constraints, the list could go and on, there would never be any reason to compromise with the safety and well being of another person. I cannot conceive of Kobe doing any harm to anyone, having been very close to and observed his behavior for 2 1/2 years. He has not ever so much as growled at anyone for a split second. And I would almost have bet my life that he would not even be capable psychologically of lunging on a person with an obvious intent to either hurt them or scare hell out of them. So now I feel like I cannot trust him in any situation with people. This is a perfect scenario for shattering my previous idylic life and I am not willing to make ANY excuses for what is going on as there is too much at stake. I have a lethal weapon on my hands and someday I may not be able to restrain him, as he weighs almost as much as I do.
I will end this massive post by saying that, thanks to another
poster's suggestion to have Kobe's thyroid tested, I have an
appmt. this afternoon to have that done. He will wear a muzzle to the vet's office. At this point I am pinning my hopes on there being something medically wrong with him, and as much as I hate medication, that looks like the one area that will allow us to keep our best friend.
Thanks again to you and all the others who were willing to offer help and advice to me.
Nancy

Wow, Nancy. My takeaway from your post is that you'd rather medicate or re-home your dog rather than teach him through leadership. Was that your intent?

 Quote: nancy black

I am somewhat floored to see you say that what Kobe is doing lately is "good ol GSD behavior". I do not buy that and I would bet alot of money that Ed Frawley would'nt either. Maybe you are not able to visualize what a large GSD lunging at you out of nowhere, barking like he is ready to take your head off looks like but it aint something I ever want to see again. And if this is "acceptable" behavior this GSD is out of here and I will never own another one.

I didn't read the words "good ol GSD behavior". I read "bratty GSD behavior." In other words, behavior that can and should be extinguished by training.

I didn't see the word "acceptable," either. I may have missed it, but I read pretty carefully.

I'm pretty sure that everyone on this thread can visualize "a GSD lunging at you out of nowhere, barking like he is ready to take your head off." Many of us own GSDs.


"This started about a year ago and I have tried everything but to no avail. I have talked to alot of dog people who offered some advice but this dog is almost uncontrollable until either the person goes away or I open the door, then he is a bunny rabbit, many times will lay down and wait to have his tummy rubbed. And since he has NEVER shown any aggression to anyone after I open the door (I mentioned yesterday about his docile temperament to the UPS men when I open the door) I have learned to live with this unpleasant habit but I hate it because it obviously makes anyone who comes over who is not comfortable with big dogs wish they had'nt come to my house. When I know someone is coming over I put Kobe on the back porch to avoid the King Kong reception."

What are the methods that you have tried to no avail? Learning to live with something is the opposite of training an acceptable replacement behavior.

For example, aside from the desensitizing mentioned earlier in the thread, teaching acceptable door behavior is far more useful than trying to correct or ignore unacceptable door behavior.

I asked earlier: Do you have desensitizing experience? If not, we can help. I would head for the vet and get clearance and then get whatever help you need to reestablish pack order.

If this dog is physically well, then you are describing behavior that we have read about here (and seen) many times -- behavior that has been in the making for a long time, and not a perfect dog suddenly turning into the GSD from hell.

My gut feeling is that someone who has successfully readied the dog for his CGC will be successful at this hurdle too, even if you need professional help to get you started.

I'm not minimizing anything you are concerned about. I do see it all as behavior that has probably come about (if there is no physical problem) through lacking pack structure work as the dog matured. That doesn't mean it can't be remedied.

All JMO, of course.

 Quote: nancy black

Sheila,
While I really appreciate the time you took to write such a long post I have to say that I am somewhat floored to see you say that what Kobe is doing lately is "good ol GSD behavior".

Nancy,
I don't think Sheila was saying that your dog is exhibiting "good" behavior, rather, he may very well be demonstrating the fairly typical, dramatic change in attitude that can occur with maturity (this can happen anywhere from 15 months to 3 years, depending on the line of dog). In fact, I thought Sheila's post was one of the most appropriate so far... a LOT of us have been there, myself included, and it can feel like Jekyll and Hyde if you've never dealt with it before.

 Quote: nancy black

This is a perfect scenario for shattering my previous idylic life and I am not willing to make ANY excuses for what is going on as there is too much at stake. I have a lethal weapon on my hands and someday I may not be able to restrain him, as he weighs almost as much as I do...

At this point I am pinning my hopes on there being something medically wrong with him, and as much as I hate medication, that looks like the one area that will allow us to keep our best friend.

It's good to consider any issues that may be health related, but you really need to allow yourself to consider how you'll handle this as a training issue, if Kobe gets a clean bill of health. I'm wondering if the previously "idyllic" situation you describe allowed you to just leave your guard down... perhaps the pack structure in your house between your family and Kobe was a bit lax because he's been such an easy going dog to live with for so long - I mean no disrespect in that, it's very easy to let things slide when a problem isn't constantly making itself visible - now that he's maturing into true adult temperament, he's both testing his own strengths, and seeing right though all the weaknesses in your handling. Again, not to sound accusatory - this has happened in my relationship with my dog during more than one occasion (I know my dog well enough now to recognize aggressive behavior in him as a wake up call for ME) - it simply requires a complete revaluation of the way you live with the dog, reinforcing your position as the one who calls the shots. In reference to Mike's excellent post - sometimes you just have to deal with these challenges as they come up, refrain from getting anxious and overanalyzing the situation, and just take control, pick up the lead and walk the dog.

I think you owe it to this dog, who has clearly proven what a kind and faithful companion he is to you, to work with him through this - find a great trainer if you don't feel confident enough in what you need to do... barring medical issues, he sounds like a great dog who just needs firm guidance right now. JMO

~Natalya

*Connie and I were posting at the same time again... she's spot on!

 Quote: nancy black

I have learned to live with this unpleasant habit but I hate it because it obviously makes anyone who comes over who is not comfortable with big dogs wish they had'nt come to my house. When I know someone is coming over I put Kobe on the back porch to avoid the King Kong reception. I have used the ecollar a few times but he goes right through it or quiets down momentarily, but I don't feel good about zapping him for something he does not seem able to control, maybe wrong thinking on my part.

IMO jumping on the door uncontrollably is the same type of behavior as lunging on the leash whether it's root is in aggression, excitement, territorial protection. The door protects the stranger on the other side, you are seeing now that the leash and e-collar may not be enough to protect a stranger out in the world. The dog is just expanding on a behavior that he has been practicing for awhile now at the door.

There are many strategies to train acceptable door behavior. Place training, being one of them, when the trigger is identified train the dog to go to his "place" or simply sit at the door. Get a helper to ring the doorbell while you train, so you have lots of reps. As others have said, avoiding the behavior or correcting it when it happens may not be enough in this case.