For me, it has never been strays, but rather, dogs that are in their front yard with their owners, unleashed. In this situation, I believe it is territorial. We all know that dogs don't percieve territory the same way we do. They consider the street in front of their house to be theirs as much as the front yard is.

We really don't have a huge stray problem where I live, it's usually just a matter of inattentive owners gardening in their front yard with their dogs, or escaped dogs roaming around. One of mine is an escape artist, and I've been lucky enough to have caring neighbors take her home and call me to come pick her up. We've reinforced our containment system and our potty procedures, so this hasn't happened for a while.

I think that with true strays, it's probably a matter of territoriality as well. A stray dog is still going to stake out territory, and if not confined to one particular area, like a pet dog, it will stake out whatever territory it chooses. If it happens to be the street you're walking on with your dog, then the stray will attempt to defend it. Either that, or there is some precious resource nearby, such as a food source, water, or shelter. Make sense?

Well, if a dog is off a leash and won't come when his owner calls, then I would call him a stray. Because he is straying.

Well, that's just semantics. I work with a local animal shelter, so I know the difference between a loved pet and a stray. In larger metropolitan areas, there are packs of feral dogs roaming the streets and making their homes in junk yards and alleys. Nope, a dog who charges out of his yard to defend his percieved territory is not a stray, but rather, a poorly supervised pet. In a case like that, the dog is not at fault, but the human is, for either not training their pet adequately enough that he is solid on the recall, or by allowing the dog in an unfenced front yard unleashed in the first place.

I've had several encounters with dogs that their ass hole owners stupidly let out the door to roam around on their own. The one that most sticks in my mind was a two year old Rottie that staged a half hour attack on my Lab about ten year ago. It was early winter time, and most houses were closed up for the season. I kept my dog on leash, and moved between him and the Rottie, who followed us, circling and charging for almost two miles before I got to an occupied house. I got the house occupant to call the village police who finally showed up and offered to take the dog to the beach and drop it off, "IF" I would put the dog in his squad car. I was so pissed, I removed the leash from my dog, called the Rottie and as he got close, draped it around his neck and he meekly went into the car. I then told the cop if he released that dog, I would be a witness for the defense when the dog attacked a child or another dog. And I informed him I was pressing charges on the ass holes who owned the dog. Despite quite a bit of pressure from the police department, I insisted, until they discovered the dog's history of other attacks, including killing a fluff ball dog several months earlier. The owners finally agreed to get rid of the dog in exchange for the town to drop charges. I'm still pissed at the owners. And I don't blame the Rottie at all. He was having a great time, and might well have been a nice dog if trained. I still can't believe I didn't try leashing him earlier. LOL
johne

Interesting discussion.

I've had my share of loose dogs, attempt to attack my dogs. Most can be scared off by a untied front. I've have had loose Rotties, Mutts, and Pit bulls approach in an aggressive manner, but three on one or two odds make them think real hard. I command my dogs to stand ready, and tell the other stray dogs to " Go home", smacking my 6ft walking stick, against the ground.

I will share this event with you, I walk my dogs in the neighborhood park at night usually around 2:00-3:00 am, When I work swing shift. I usually carry a flash light and or walking stick, pocket knife, & conceal carry equipment plus my two leased buddies.

I walk this late because, I let them run the park off lease after being release from a long stay or slide/stair climbing session, checking that we are alone.

This day from nowhere 3 Rotties came trouting toward us, out of the shadows, about 35 yards away. I called my dogs to my side and leased them.

As the dogs got closer the smallest of the Rotts continued barking and advancing, the larger two sorta circled each other but stop advancing.

Not wanting to set off any prey drive attacks, I decided to stand strong.

My dogs straining at the lease but not barking just a low growl,I pulled my stainless steel protector out out
and shouted "Go home".

I don't know what happen but at that the two large Rotties, touted away in the opposite direction. The smaller one leading the attack, kept advancing & barking. We took three steps toward him with my dogs lunging and barking. The Rottie looked over his shoulder, spun around and caught up with his friends, the small Rott, stopped and barked once more. They left, no shots fired.

I shudder to think what would have happen if it was just a single person or teenager couple out moonlighting that night.

On the city street a large walking cane helps. Smacking it hard against the ground the barking dog, seem to get the message. He's next.

Great discussion!

Richard Cannon: "If the owner is completely oblivious to the dog I avoid them like the plauge. These are the dogs that create problems."

An illuminating summation. Now I know exactly what to look for.

I carry pepper spray (never used), and use some of the strategies outlined here--although you can forget carrying a handgun in Santa Cruz County! (To be honest, that wouldn't be for me, anyway; I barely have the time to train my GSD, let alone take the gun courses and practice time I'd need.)

My trainer showed me a flank kick one day as a dog fight preventer: catch the dog with your instep just where the abdomen curves into the back leg. My understanding is that it's actually fairly difficult to really injure the dog this way, as long as you don't catch it with your toe.

The very next day a young Golden charged out of his yard at my GSD pup. I'm by nature a klutz; imagine my surprise when I executed the kick flawlessly and saw the drive drain out of the dog instantly. No yelp; he just turned away and ran back upstairs at the same rate he'd run down. But his focus had clearly been on Oka; I don't think he even saw it coming.

However, there's a Rott on one of our walks where I'm going to escalate to pepper spray first if it ever comes to that. 'Cause he don't focus on my dog--he focuses on me!

Just a few more suggestions for all "dog walkers" out there: Carry a cell phone on your walks and have it programmed to speed dial 911. Make your call immediately after gaining control of the situation! Do Not wait, do not hesitate, call and report a "dangerous dog"! Three guesses as to what the owner of the other dog will be doing while you are trying to get back to your home several blocks away ( Hint: I guarantee he/she will NOT tell the officers who respond to HIS call that his dog viciously attacked yours without provocation!);In that vein, if you know in advance that there is a problem dog in your neighborhood, call Animal Control or your local version thereof and make a complaint before you have a problem. Get a "paper trail" established so that if/when you have a confrontation you won't look like a schmuck when the officer asks "Why, if this dog has been a problem for so long, are you only now reporting it?" Pepper spray can work fairly well against a non hard-core dog fighter, but you must use it as soon as the other dog approaches...don't wait until the he is 2ft. away...get a unit that uses a "straight stream" delivery and spray directly in the mouth and eyes from 12-15ft. away...don't do a half-a** job, SPRAY him! Use loud, verbal commands to the owner if present "Get your dog away","Get him away NOW!" (No, it probably won't do much good since people like this always seem to have their ears packed with peanut butter or something, but there is a chance that witnesses will hear you and that will be in your favor). Remember that this IS a very serious subject! The possibility of severe injury is always there for your dog and/or yourself as well as the chance that things could escalate quickly into a physical confrontation with the owner(s). (I think the walking stick is a great idea, mine is 6ft. long and solid hickory). I have no problems with knives, batons or guns, but be careful you don't get into more trouble than you can get out of...these weapons take things to a MUCH higher level for legally justified use and could cost you a great deal in many, many ways if used inappropriately. Remember if you shoot, you are responsible and legally liable for each and every round fired, including any misses! Good luck and ... enjoy your walk!

Some interesting responses and some very foolhardy actions by some people.

Every situation is different so it is impossible to lay down a set of rules that will cater for ever exigency.

Before I attempt to do just that I would like to take portions of individual posts and take a closer look.

The original post says "disabled for life". Every dog fight incident should be looked at in this manner. You have no way of knowing the potential outcome, so always deal with the worst scenario as a matter of course.

VanCamp states he carries a handgun. So do I. But using it in a situation such as this can be extremely dangerous. You may hit your own dog. You may miss entirely - but the bullet is going somewhere. Where?

Unless you are very proficient with your firearm - don't.

VanCamp also says, "and finally grabbed the dog by his collar and one back leg".

I'm truly sorry about the loss of your pal but you have no idea how fortunate you are not to have been savaged.

Tamar mentions a walking stick. A good idea, I also carry one. But if you use it, use it really hard. If the dog is determined and you only "piss him off" he will come back in with added determination. That first strike has got to be accurate and forceful. You are not going to get "repeated attempts" at this one.

Richard Cannon says his head is on a swivel. Exactly right. I too move my dogs and myself away from other dogs. Even if they appear to be benign I never let the incident occur. It takes only one dog - one of mine or somebody elses - to show the wrong body language and the game will be on. If you are not experienced you will not even see or recognise the body language signs.

Richard also says keep the dog moving.

Johne relates his experience. He was fortunate in that the aggressor was not that confident. If he was he would not have managed to walk the two miles.

Here are my "rules" for anybody that wishes to take note.

Be fully aware all the time. Avoid any possible conflict situations. It is not going to help you or your dog to take an aggressive stance by saying the other dog should not be free, or continuing on a collision course because it is your "right".

NEVER pick up your dog. Doing so prevents the dog from defending himself. It also prevents you from defending yourself because your hands are full and you do not have free movement when clutching a dog to your chest.

Clutching your dog will not stop the aggressor. What it does do is put you firmly in the firing line. "Disabled for life!"

The psychology of the dog will spur the aggressor to further attack when he recognises your, and your dog's, defensive attitude. (Held against your chest). Dogs do not conform to Queensbury rules. They do kick you when you are down.

NEVER place your hands anywhere near the dog's head and that includes your own dog. When dogs fight the "shutters come down". They are oblivious to their surroundings. You are as likely to be bitten by your own dog as by the aggressor dog.

OK, so what do you need to do?

Determine from the speed and posture of the aggressor if he is coming in for the tackle or if he is going to "stand-off" aggressively.

If he "stands-off" you have to take the initiative and be more aggressive. The chances are you will lose a physical confrontation so you have to win this fight by dominating the dog mentally while taking a very aggressive stance. Do not break off your aggression and posturing until the dog breaks away. If you break away first or try to make an escape the dog will realise he has won the mental battle. With this new found "win" the confidence of the aggressor will be nigh-on impossible to subdue.

With the aggressor in the stand-off DO NOT attempt to hit him. You may force him into defence drive. Just face him down until he breaks.

If the aggressor is in for the tackle RELEASE your own dog. Your dog now has the opportunity for fight or flight. Not possible when you have him restrained. If you do not release your own dog you do not have:

2 free hands.
unencumbered movement
free balance

and you may well have the leash wrapped around your legs.

If dog contact occurs do not encumber your own dog in any way. Keep your hands away.
Get behind the aggressor and using both hands grip the back legs of the aggressor tightly. Lift the dog's back legs completely off the ground. Extend your arms fully and bend forward slightly thus increasing the distance between yourself and the aggressors head.

The chances are that the aggressor will immediately release your dog and whip around to bite you. Hold his back legs tightly and off the ground. When you get some balance kick him very hard in the stomach/chest. Your kick must go between his raised back legs. If you attempt to kick from the side he WILL take your leg. Repeat as necessary.

You can now control your own dog with voice commands - do not let go of the aggressor.

The next part sounds horrific and cruel but you have no choice. If you release the aggressor before he is completely subdued he will turn on you the moment you release him.

You must continue to kick until he is totally subdued. If you are physically large enough swing him repeatedly against a wall or a pole. Release him only when you are sure that he will not come back at you.

Some of you will be reeling in horror so let me explain the psychology of the dog.

A dog is not capable of rational thought at these times. I've already said, "the shutters come down". The dog is in a "kill or be killed" mode. Dogs are not capable of compassion. He will not think, "I've taught him a lesson" and swagger off as the victor. You can only think of this situation as would a soldier. You either kill or sufficiently injure the enemy that he is no longer a threat, OR HE WILL KILL YOU.

To fully understand this pyschological make-up you have to see one dog kill another. Having done so he will walk off as if nothing has happened. He has no remorse, no guilt and no compassion. If the dog gets any inclination of these feelings in you he will understand (No, not MISunderstand - it is fully understandable in the dogs mind) he has the psychological advantage.

Walk away (do not run) from the incident. If the dog is very strong willed and still has some fight he will interpret your running as fleeing and he may well re-engage.

I hope somebody gets something from this.

Regards,

Geoff.

Geoff, Nice post. I once read that to disable a dog you hit him with a stick or pipe across the knee. Not only would it damage the knee but hit a nerve similiar to the one we have when we hit our funny bone.

Milt

Geoff,
It sounds as though you have had experience of these situations and full marks for a brilliant and truthful reply.
I wonder how many people will take notice and still prefer to place themselves at serious risk of personal attack.
Having been the victim of a serious dog attack,I can assure people that it is not a joke to be in a life threatening situation with an animal that has gone into defence mode.They are out of control and fighting for their lives.
Paul