Connie,
yes, the dog we are talking about is the male who is afraid of the treadmill. On the walk he is right next to my leg with a swift pace.

I teach them to sit when there is a biker, or people coming down the path. I get off the path and have them sit and wait , the path is narrow and I don't want any altercations. At this present time I don't have a place where there are no people to walk. Also I teach them to sit when we get to an intersection.

The inside of our house is small and we only have access to basement from the outside. I was thinking about some agility equipment down the basement and on Friday I even talked to a friend who might be able to help me with it. However, this will take time so it's a work in progress.

I have watched and used the DVD. It's awesome! Ed's best DVD. When I am trying to desensitize him with the treadmill he will actually offer behaviors! I was so happy!

It does not matter where the dog it he will bark. They can hear what is happening from all the other rooms in the house and will bark.

I talked to this new guy on Thursday afternoon and clearly described Chili's disposition. I told him how the breeder did not want to originally place him because of his genetic issues and he was to live on her farm for the rest of his life. Because of this she did not socialize him properly.

We were looking for an adult dog because at that time we both worked full time. She agreed to place Chili with us when he was 10 months old. Honestly we really did not understand what we got ourselves into.

When he arrived we literally had to peel him out of the crate, that's how terrified he was. For the first two weeks he smelled terribly because he was having an awful time with the transition. I called the breeder and told her what was happening and she said:" I was afraid he was going to have a hard time"

Add our inexperience to the mix and you have a disaster. I told the new trainer all this and he seemed to understand.

Konnie,

I completely agree with you that a good trainer is needed in this case. First of all we are simply too inexperienced, second of all we have two dogs feeding off of each other, thirdly my husband is dealing with severe health issues himself and does not have the strength to rehabilitate two dogs, fourthly the dogs both have genetic/health issues.

It is simply too much. I have done my best with the help of people here but someone needs to come in and see what really is going on. I live in it so I may not be able to see mistakes I am making, it's hard to always have an objective view of all the issues especially when things are this complicated. The problem is finding someone who knows what they are doing.


Thanks for the ball idea! I did not think of that and will definitely try. Can you please tell me how to teach scent/finding the ball? I posted about scent training before but did not get any replies. Is there a good book/ DVD?

 Quote: Linda West

I told the new trainer all this and he seemed to understand.

Good.

All that you have explained above kinda points up that the goal for me with this dog would be simply a more balanced companion dog. Goals of this dog becoming a service dog (you mentioned earlier that you hoped to train him to be a SD, I believe) are (IMO) unrealistic. Managing and dialing back the reactivity with a dog like this are worthy goals, and maybe the highest goals to strive for in this case. Still plenty to do!

Konnie's suggestion is terrific. And focus work with you inside (and with a concentration on the quietest times) will help. A reactive dog who is focused on you in the middle of upbeat sessions with great rewards has a reaction to something blowing around outside that's very different from that of a reactive dog lying half asleep beside your chair.

Of course, this can't always be happening. But when you continue calmly on with the work, ignoring any outside noise, the cue to him is that the pack leader doesn't perceive this sound as even worth mentioning -- never mind interrupting what you are doing. The dog then starts to learn different reactions to minor sounds outdoors -- looking to you for guidance and continuing on with what he's doing.

I hope that you plan to discuss the new trainer's methods and philosophy before training starts. Always a good idea, IMHO, regardless of credentials.

 Quote: linda west

Thanks for the ball idea! I did not think of that and will definitely try. Can you please tell me how to teach scent/finding the ball? I posted about scent training before but did not get any replies. Is there a good book/ DVD?

Is this dog a natural retriever?

You might try this for indoor scenting games...
1. Have one person restrain the dog (or tie him safely to a solid object).
2. While the dog is restrained, show him the ball, and walk a few feet away. Put the ball behind an object or piece of furniture. Make it obvious where you are putting the ball, and that you no longer have it in your hands.
3. Immediately release the dog to retrieve the ball. Give a command (Find it!) simultaneously as you release the dog. When he finds the ball, tell him what a great dog he is and play with him with the ball for a short duration.

Repeat this process a couple of times, even if the dog is initially successful. You want him to be ultra-confident that he knows where the ball is - that it is hidden in this one spot. If the dog is not successful, hide the ball in closer proximity to him - make it super easy for him to be successful. Also, if the dog is really motivated for the ball, there is no reason to artificially "jack him up" with high-pitched, excited talk from you. If he doesn't seem very motivated, you can add some energy to the situation by verbally encouraging him.

Once you've gotten in a couple of reps of the above, move on to the next step...
4. Repeat steps one and two, however, in step two, put the ball behind another object located a few feet further away from where the ball was first hidden.
5. Immediately release the dog to retrieve the ball.

The dog *should* go to the location where the ball was initially hidden. He obviously won't find it there, but will start searching around with his eyes and nose to find it. When he is successful, play with him with the ball for a "reward" for finding the ball.

Continue to slowly and progressively make the game more difficult by moving the ball farther away (around the room), each time moving the ball only a few feet from where it previously was located. Once the dog gets the hang of this game, you can make the game more difficult by hiding the ball under objects, or on opposite sides of the room. And, you can eventually move the ball to other rooms as well, expanding his search area.

My explanation above is simplified, but hopefully there's enough info for you to start with. Some dogs pick this up quickly, and for others it takes a while. If problems crop up, post them here and I'll try to help you troubleshoot.

Hope this helps.

CJ,

first of all, that you so much for your reply. There is so much information in it so I will try to be as concise as I can answering it.

I completely agree that the dog is in charge on this barking thing. I have been trying to say "quiet" the second I see any inclination that he will be barking but there are simply too many times that I react, as you say. I am not quite sure how to turn this around. Have him tethered to me at all times?

I never thought this was cute on the other hand. We have always lived too close to other people to be able to think barking was cute and we never knowingly reinforced this.

My husband has severe health issues and is fairly limited as to what he can do, where he can go, etc. He is rather isolated and so we actually encourage people stopping by on a whim because otherwise he might not see anyone for a long time. Because all of his friends are very busy we encourage them to stop by our house for five minutes or so even when they are just driving by going somewhere else. If we wait to plan this it will never happen.

Now that you are talking about training the friends, I realize that I need to do a better job training them. I think I will write a letter and give out to all of them. My husband has many friends so that would probably be the best way to do it.

CJ, he seriously hates sitting on a pavement. He is hairless and I can tell you, this is really what it is. His skin is very sensitive and he will sit on surfaces that don't hurt his bum. The minute it's too rough or wet he will pretend to sit holding his butt 1" or so off the ground acting like I am torturing him. Seriously!

Pack structure is going great. Just this last Friday my husband was telling me that for the first time the dog sat down by himself for him when he took him out of the crate and sat down by himself again outside while waiting for my husband to close the door. This is a huge improvement for us!

Yes we do practice NILIF.

I was trying to get him used to the treadmill to give him appropriate amount of exercise during the winter. Again, with my inexperience I may be doing more harm than help. I will focus more on OB then.

I don't know if he really knows what "quiet" means. I have been doing it for maybe two months now? Sometimes he will continue to bark depending on how loud/excited/long/close the noise is. If it is someone talking right next to the house I have to stand over the crate and say "quiet" several times. I did not realize I should not be doing this so I will try what you say.

Thanks so much for mentioning this, I really need good feedback. As I said before, I may think I am doing the right thing at it's completely wrong. I thoroughly appreciate you giving me all this feedback.

Sorry for being a little edgy about the fact that I don't take them out when the weather is bad. Sometimes people are very opinionated about things and taking dogs out during bad weather seems to be one of them from the threads that I have read.

Because of the lack of hair their skin is extremely sensitive. This makes any bad weather a sensory issue first of all. They will actually duck in the rain and try to dodge the drops at first. When they realize it's useless they just stand there and won't move. If I don't put a raincoat on them they will not even go potty.

If it's raining too hard with too much wind they will not even go unless I put them under the picnic table for protection from elements.

The little one does not even do wind. She will simply plop on the ground and won't move.

I have some pretty serious winter gear for both of them. When we first got Chili his ears got frost bitten during a potty trip. If they feel warm and protected they will go for a small walk but I am simply too afraid of any more frost bite so I keep it short.

So thanks for the understanding. Usually when I say we have hairless dogs the first reaction is "EEEWWW! you are crazy!" so I do tent to be a little on the careful side when talking about it.

Connie,

for this dog, the older one, my goals are to become as balanced and controlled as possible. When I was talking about the service dog I was hoping the other one but at this point we just need some normalcy and balance overall. When the basics are better we will see where we are and go from there.

Yes, I am planning on thorough discussion about training methods and philosophy with this trainer especially after the disaster we have just been through. The good part about this bad experience is it really made me realize how very much I need to be vigilant and detailed when it comes to other people regardless of what anyone says! He was very positive about Leerburg when I mentioned it so that's a good sign.

To all of you,
thank you so much for taking your time and explaining all these things! We have been struggling for a long time with these behaviors and it's the details that I can't see and don't know to do that really make the difference.

If someone tells me to do a),b),c),d) I will do just that but many times without detailed instructions I will end up doing the wrong thing so thanks so much for all the great details, it's really what matters!

Konnie,

thanks so much for the scent sequence. I was actually born not far away from where Juice comes from. Is that funny or what?

Very cool, Lenka!

Thank you so much for the information on their sensitivity issues. I was just having a hard time understanding how you were able to put an e-collar on and stim him, yet it sounded like a raindrop would make him melt. I see now that they are two totally different issues. Again, they sound like a very interesting breed. Do you have pictures of them? Sorry, you may have posted and I missed it. I miss a lot.

And of course my perception of your situation could be totally off the mark. I am no expert and was simply throwing some food for thought out there along with the C(K)onnies’ excellent information.

You know Lenka, one thing that does strikes me about your situation is that you are willing and open to new information and changing your ways. This is a huge step in any rehabilitation/training process. With this perfect outlook, I think you will soon have the balanced companion dogs you are working so hard to create. He’s had six years of this self-satisfying behavior. Stay calm and patient with the recovery process and I think you will find that it happens fairly quickly once the details start to fall into place for you.

Again, best of luck to you and keep up great work.