Boy, several of you are like talking to broken records and are quoting practices from 20 years ago. The Science diet thing is due to what they make the most $$$ selling and the fact that other companies do not compete for the veterinary market, therefore they are not aware of all the new diets available. The reason alot of them don't push RAW diets is because there are STUPIID CLIENTS out there that think raw diet means throwing a steak and not considering the extra vitamins and minerals required to make a complete diet. If you only sat in an office every day for a week and saw all the cases and the clients that come in, you'd understand that they talk about you the same way you are preaching here. We always have great tales about the idiot client who tried to do this and that happened and then wanted us to fix their mistake.

The canned cat diet, again, you say, was 20 years ago. Well, I was working 20 years ago, and don't remember any such teachings, ever. The only reason we have ever taught clients against the use of totally soft or canned diets is due to dental disease.

Did you know vets make lists, kinda like Santa, naughty or nice. They are not required to treat your pet, even in an emergency. So you better have one you make nice with because if you've pissed all the others in your area off, they are under no obligation to treat your dying pet. You obviously think you know more, so this situation wouldn't arise, since you can treat every incident that your dog or horse encounters, so don't worry about it. My vet has a do not treat list - and will not go out to those clients for any reason - most of them are STUPID KNOW IT ALL OWNERS.

You are walking on me and Betty's chosen professions and generalizing. You are making a mockery and lumping the few vets you have had an unfortunate experience with - out of the hundreds of thousands of great ones out there. I will grant there are some still practicing that don't keep up with new medicine, there are also those who know their clients won't comply with treatments or recommendations, so why bother - since those clients obviously went to vet school also, can prescribe drugs, get drugs, perform surgery and know much more than the one with the dvm after their name.

Why do you all ask Betty questions, if you don't respect vets?

Lynn, the gist I get from this thread is that there are some very good vets out there, and some not so good. That seems like a reasonable thing for people to acknowledge. I wouldn't take it personally.

But since you mention it--a vet who is more concerned with making the most $$$ from a brand of dog food, and is "not aware of new diets available" doesn't sound like one I'd automatically put in the vet hall of fame.

I have a vet that I absolutely love. But I didn't find her until I left one (after twenty years) that I didn't think had my dogs' best interest as his first priority.

I think the thing to take from this conversation is that not all vets are equal. It's not a slam on the whole profession.

I just tuned in to this thread. Jamie, I'm sorry that this class sounds like a waste of time (can't you drop or withdraw?) but to extrapolate from this to denouncing all vets as stupid is inappropriate. About half the students taking the undergraduate genetics class I teach at CSU are pre-vets, or think they are. Most of them will not get into vet school - here at CSU there are more than 13 applicants for every place. The ones that do get in are, in my experience, very high achievers who often already have a lot of experience with animals, and are quite capable of distinguishing between accurate information and stories about Cleopatra and jaguars.

My current vet is one of my former genetics students who did get into the CSU DVM program. We have great conversations every time I'm in her office. She acquired her professional knowledge in the DVM program, not in the pre-vet classes (except for my genetics class, of course, or so she tells me...)

She has also reminded me that the majority of owners she deals with don't do things that I do (such as raw feeding and late neutering) because they don't have the interest, commitment or resources to manage their animals that way. As she puts it, raw is great if done right but a dog is better off on decent kibble than with an incorrect and unbalanced raw diet.

I haven't read this entire thread but I think Tracy is right. Like any profession, there are good and bad. I am a lawyer and contrary to popular belief, not all of us are bottom feeders :-)

I have a FANTASTIC vet that I go to who does happen to sell Purina and Hills. With that said, he has no problem with my raw diet and does not take offense when I tell him that I think Science Diet is crap - and I have told him that :-)

Additionally my best friend and Frost's breeder is a vet who I would go to in a heartbeat if she did not live across the country.

Not all vets are created equal and just because there is science diet in the reception area does not automatically equate to poor vet skills in my book. Vets are one of those things I believe you have to work to find one that is not only knowledgable but also meshes with you personality wise. Unlike many of the pet owning public, we spend a significant amount of time invested in our dogs' health welfare be it through titers and xrays of hips/elbows to CERF examinations. If you don't have a vet you trust or like, it is time to move on :-)

 Quote: sheila buckley

 Quote: jamie craig

This man is a vet, many of our professors are, this one is not practicing anymore (he was "old" when my father had him....he must be at least 85 now....seriously, he's ancient)

I'm familiar with your school's Animal Science Program and I do not believe the professor of whom you speak has a DVM.

Perhaps you are missing some tongue in cheek humor when this professor tells his stories? He can be quite funny and has a certain amount of disdain for Western medicine. I just felt your post was way off base from the Professor I am familiar with and wanted to set the record straight.

I'm going by what I was told by another professor who was talking about working with him. I was told he was at one time a practicing vet for the school (for the horses).

At first I THOUGHT he was joking....I know his particular brand of humor is a bit off (I laughed my way through his horse breeding class...I thought that was a great and informative class). However I kept asking questions to make sure that I was hearing this right...and when the info has shown up in the notes we've been taking, it's not just ONE class I'm basing this after...and if you press him about the info he'll keep saying the same things....He knows horses pretty well it seems...but the information in this class....I can't even....it's just so bad it's terrifying!



I'd like to note I'm not saying vets are stupid. I'm saying it's a common theme on the leerburg site. Until I came here I was always "oh, what vet says goes". I was surprised at the amount of ranting that was done... I've been lucky...we've always had GREAT vets who talk to owners. Some of the things I've read about vets saying here my reaction has been "how could a vet ever say something like that?" well....perhaps early education is the reason....I have no doubt my classmates on the way off to vet school are lab-smart...but to not know that the stuff in this class is, we'll say "not accurate", is terrifying...these are people who are a semester away from going off to vet school....

I don't take any offense re- the bad vet talk. There are bad vets. I quit working due to a bad vet . As Randy says, so what?
What is mine are my memories. There was no price gouging and no foolishness. If you f-ed up on the farm they didn't call you again. I did it 20 years. Twenty winters of night call are mine.
We busted our ass for salt of the earth families for whom it was an honor to work. Devotion was never a question. If the client knew more that me that was great -- we were all in it together.

 Quote: Lynne Peck

The Science diet thing is due to what they make the most $$$ selling and the fact that other companies do not compete for the veterinary market, therefore they are not aware of all the new diets available.

Is that supposed to excuse the vets who do so, of feeding a food that sickens animals further? How is that argument supposed to inspire my unwavering, blind faith in all Veterinarians without any scrutiny whatsoever?

 Quote: Lynne Peck

The reason alot of them don't push RAW diets is because there are STUPIID CLIENTS out there that think raw diet means throwing a steak and not considering the extra vitamins and minerals required to make a complete diet.

That's certainly confidence inspiring.
Apparently veterinarians don't consider it their job to educate clients. It's odd that a bunch of non-professionals managed to accomplish the same task nearly daily on the internet.

 Quote: Lynne Peck

If you only sat in an office every day for a week and saw all the cases and the clients that come in, you'd understand that they talk about you the same way you are preaching here. We always have great tales about the idiot client who tried to do this and that happened and then wanted us to fix their mistake.

As do we. As do we.
We're well aware of the difficulties inherent, trying to educate pet owners about animal health.

 Quote: Lynne Peck

The canned cat diet, again, you say, was 20 years ago. Well, I was working 20 years ago, and don't remember any such teachings, ever. The only reason we have ever taught clients against the use of totally soft or canned diets is due to dental disease.

Well, I'm more than happy to cite multiple DVMs directly.

 Quote: Lynne Peck

Did you know vets make lists, kinda like Santa, naughty or nice. They are not required to treat your pet, even in an emergency.

Again, how exactly is this supposed to inspire confidence? You're accomplishing the opposite of what you desire.

 Quote: Lynne Peck

So you better have one you make nice with because if you've pissed all the others in your area off, they are under no obligation to treat your dying pet.

And again, so much confidence here.
I'm well aware Vets aren't obligated to treat animals. Clearly, there's nothing resembling the Hippocratic oath in the profession if someone who works in it is comfortable making such cavalier threats to pet owners.

 Quote: Lynne Peck

You obviously think you know more, so this situation wouldn't arise, since you can treat every incident that your dog or horse encounters, so don't worry about it. My vet has a do not treat list - and will not go out to those clients for any reason - most of them are STUPID KNOW IT ALL OWNERS.

Yes, I've clearly stated that I know better than Vets.
You can obviously directly quote that from everything I've said, word for word. You're not, you know, taking everything I've said completely out of context and misconstruing it or anything.

 Quote: Lynne Peck

You are walking on me and Betty's chosen professions and generalizing. You are making a mockery and lumping the few vets you have had an unfortunate experience with - out of the hundreds of thousands of great ones out there. I will grant there are some still practicing that don't keep up with new medicine, there are also those who know their clients won't comply with treatments or recommendations, so why bother - since those clients obviously went to vet school also, can prescribe drugs, get drugs, perform surgery and know much more than the one with the dvm after their name.

And you're making excuses, blanket-generalizing and entire group of people, something that, lo and behold, I never DID, and frankly, making your position look entirely laughable.

 Quote: Lynne Peck

Why do you all ask Betty questions, if you don't respect vets?

Because as I've already previously stated, finding a good Vet is no different than finding a good professional in any field. Vets don't automatically garner confidence any more than any other professional, and anyone arguing that we should blindly trust Vets just because they're in possession of a DVM, is a fool.

We trust Betty because she has demonstrated the quality of her advice, over and over.

I happen to have a wonderful vet. I drive over an hour to get to her, but she's worth it. She supports the raw diet and comments on my dogs' teeth and general health each time she sees them.

She also supports alternative medicine. When Drift had Vestibular Syndrome, she was the FIRST to suggest chiropractic care. When Drift gets spayed in a few months, Jodi will do the surgery and we have already discussed alternative pain management (as the normal med given is Rimadyl and she knows how I feel about it).

Jodi supports me when I want MINIMAL vaccinations for my dogs.

Jodi and I don't always see eye to eye. Does that negate what she does?? Absolutley NOT. She respects my opinion and I respect hers. That is what a good client/vet relationship should be built on.

As far as believing what a Prof says is law... well, I had a Plant Bio prof that would bring a potted tree to lecture with him each day as he explained that he was a tree in a previous life. Yeah. And this was a highly respected University. The class he taught was in the Pre-Med program.

As a student, Jamie, have you challenged this guy on what he says? I would. Let the students in the class decide what they want to believe.

Just my two cents worth.

--Kel

As I've been quoted (somewhat) in this thread I guess I should say something here enre to vets.

The short version is if one can talk to and be listened to about your concerns on vacs and feeding without a hard sell for or against, shrug. What's the big deal?
These DVM's know things, have the means and can save a life we would have no hope for otherwise.

That a few are willing to be either self indulgently ignorant or consciencely throw everything for a dollar isn't (or shouldn't be) a surprise in our culture of bowing before the almighty chase for the 'good life'.

Heck, I know some good honest used car salesmen.
So let's not just flush a valued expertise wholesale down the toilet.

Ya got someone you can talk to....keep them....value them.