For sure Duane, I have seen TV shows with the working terriers. They're amazing. And what an incredible service.

CJ, I am so glad you are posting again.


With the English Shepherd, who seems to me rather like an old style colliexshep, we havent reached the place where we can take food from him. He is always fed in his crate, but he is a resource guarder, a food guarder.
To not get a big issue started (you can see it's going to be an issue) I haven't taken food items away from him. To avoid a fight with Pinker, whatever he has killed outside he hauls out into the field. Little birds, etc. he eats right away. Raccoons and possums and moles he leaves dead and I take them away, no one wants to eat them.

I haven't been able to get this dog to buy into the concept of giving me things, even for a high value treat. He does not fetch, not even sticks, won't do it, no thank you.

So taking his bunny wasn't going to happen.

We are working on it!

I did natural earthwork with terriers for a number of yrs.
The good thing about a good working terrier is they have no interest in the quarry after they make the kill.
As to rats, I've hunted them on hog farms and they live under the concrete slabs and the hog troughs.
With a half dozen terriers and a couple of people to lift the troughs it can get fast and wild.
We always wrapped our pant legs at the ankles. Seems the rats will dive for anything that looks like a tunnel.

Oh Bob! I had a dairy farmer client who ALWAYS 100% of the time had his pant legs tied with a
piece of baler twine. I mean, if you saw him in town or at an auction, he didn't, but at home in the barn, his pants were always tied.

I thought it was so weird, I could never imagine why he did that. No one else did that. I thought it was just some quirk.

I guess he had a rat problem! So funny. I haven't thought of that man in years.

Amazing what memories and answers to life's mysteries a simple thread can trigger.

 Quote: Bob Scott

With a half dozen terriers and a couple of people to lift the troughs it can get fast and wild.

That sentence is so descriptive. So full of energy, exhilarating even. That work must have been quite exciting for all involved.

Brings back that kind of terrified excitement I felt every time I flipped the light and flung open that door.

One of those dirty jobs best left to the experts.


And thank you so much Betty. It's good to have the breathing room to come back and play with all you wonderful people.

So there must be something we can help you and your new pup with.

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

I haven't been able to get this dog to buy into the concept of giving me things, even for a high value treat. He does not fetch, not even sticks, won't do it, no thank you.

Echo is not a retriever in any way, shape or form. I swear he thinks Vince is retarded for all his fetching. He watches kind of thru the corner of his eye and I swear he's rolling them and thinking… "What a fool."

However, he's a marker baby thru and thru. But when he really wants to connect (and he doesn't always want to) and we're having a good session, a kind of drive kicks in. It must be food drive but it's not normally there. Almost like an interaction drive. He seems to love the connection. And at these times, I can toss a toy. He will look at me as if to say, "what, really?" "Alright"....and slowly, very deliberately will go, pick it up and bring it back. He's doing it simply to humor me.

Completely the opposite of Vince, no food drive but he's turned on the minute you look at him.

Your boy has the prey drive. We just need to find something that will connect with him. Something to get the relationship on a really fun level.

If you want to try something, what I've found with my northern boys, who aren't generally fetchers, is that they love the light, fluffier things, and things that go really fast. Unfortunately balls and sticks (the easier things to throw) don't fit this category.

If you've got a big feather or a few littler ones or a really light, fluffy stuffy toy kind of thing and an old fishing rod, or a long pole will do. Fishing rods are great cause you can extend the reach. And once you allow him to get it he can run with it and you still have some connection. Use a heavy pound test.

Drag it at first and once he's interested, you're off and flying. You can really get them going. Fling it high so they have to jump a little. Pop it on top of a bush so he has to struggle a bit, climb and wiggle the branches.

And not that this has anything to do with the "recall" or "out" but it can start to open up that working relationship where "You" are able to fulfill that chase drive.

And with the rod and toy, once you allow him to get it you can let him run with it, give it little tug (fight) to keep him interested. When you both get comfortable with it, he'll see you pick up the rod and know it's time to play.

When you have this kind of interest/interaction you can start with the "out". The "out" of his mouth can be rewarded with it flying again immediately and he gets to chase. But don't start that yet, just get the interaction going. Playing and having fun. You'll figure out what he likes.

Oh and it sounds like he can be quite intimidated by Pinker. Make sure this is just you and him. Lock Pinker in the cat box or something.

Sorry Robert, your thread's been hi-jacked.

"Lock Pinker in the cat box or something" ROFL!!

Great ideas CJ!

Something has to be done. Today a mourning dove smashed into the window, lay dead on the lawn. The english shepherd picked it up and marched stiffly to the edge of the lawn where he proceeded to dig a giant excavation in which to bury the dove. Then he proceeded to semi-guard the spot for awhile.

Plus I found a dead squirrel crawling with maggots, GROSS. I asked my husband to "do something with it" and all he did was throw it a little farther away, where I came upon it again when fooling with sheep. ICK.

I'll start the flying ball tomorrow!.

I havent done too much with this dog, he seems so stupid and doggy compared with Pinker and he is basically so easy, happy to live in the garage etc. He's pretty boring.

"I havent done too much with this dog, he seems so stupid and doggy compared with Pinker and he is basically so easy, happy to live in the garage etc. "

Poor normal dog! That Pinker is a pretty tough act to follow!

LOL, that's funny Betty.

Sounds like we need to work on the Husband Handling skills as well. Perhaps instead of "Do something with it", which it sounds like he complied with perfectly, (so he has the desire to follow your direction) you may just need to be a little more specific next time. "Honey, there's a gross, maggot infested carcass out there. Can you contain the verminous disease spreading thing and get it into the garbage/ground whatever?"

With a full understanding of the request being made, a direct "No", could be worthy of a correction. That could be fun. And of course compliance could be met with hot dogs and beer.

In any case, this:

"I'll start the flying ball tomorrow!"

That's great!

Can't stress the "light and fluffy" enough. From what you've said, he hasn't shown much interest in a "ball" so maybe something completely new.

Even a couple of sheets of paper. Crumple them all up together into kind of a ball and tie the line around it. If you're using a stuffy, fluffy thing, take the stuffing out and use the fluffy outer part. Or hey, maybe sneak a bunch of feathers off that fresh Morning Dove. Ha...better idea, get hubby to grab the feathers off the Morning Dove. A chance to redeem himself.

Remember: Honey, the English shepherd buried a bird that I want some feathers off. Can you put on your welding gloves, walk into English shepherd territory, dig that up and grab me some. 6 or 7 should do. Please.

Light, light. And once he's interested, dance that thing up and over and into and under anything that would resemble one of his prey chases. Maybe 3 minutes max. or 2 even. 4 the next day, 5 the next... Always stop when he's having a really good time.

Don't use the "out" word yet. In fact, I probably wouldn't say anything all. Just the fun chase and then it stops. He'll probably just drop it if it's not moving. Pick up the toy and put it away till the next day.

Oh and Betty, does this "English Shepherd" (said in a most dignified British accent) have a name?