This has been my experience as well. I sit down with Microsoft OneNote open and watch the same 3-5 minutes repeatedly while I try to get it all down. I was trying to finish the Power of Food video in that manner but I just made myself set the notes a side and just watched the rest of it (from Luring forward) yesterday while Negan chewed my fingers. Watching one of his vids is like taking the nickel tour of a museum. You have to came back through slowly and stop at places to take it all in.

 Quote: Sheila Ryan

Hi Jeff,

My dog was a landshark when he was a pup. The most effective thing that worked for me was making an operatic high pitched yelp when my dog bit me. It sounded very unatural to me but it worked. As soon as I did it he stopped and looked at me "wow I hurt you, oh I didnt mean that I was only playing look". I tried the toy chew and that helped as well. I would continue to do the yelp but thats just my opinion what worked for me. Let me know how it goes....

So, I did something similar. I used "Owe!". I did it really loudly and went limp all over like I died. He was startled and felt terrible about it. He came over and gave me a kiss on the nose, an apology as I perceived it, and was not as rough for that play session. The next time I took him from his crate his bites were soft as cotton (at first, at least). He seems to start out thinking about how this behavior will make me feel but there is a point where he seems to lose himself in the moment and just gives in to the passion of gnawing on my hands.

In retrospect, allowing his teeth on my skin may have been a bad idea. I've had a lot of dogs in my lifetime. The chewing of my fingers and wrists has always been a part of the bonding process for me and I enjoyed it. Negan is my first GSD. He is willful and strong! This finger biting business was a big mistake. I'm still trying redirection but I need something new. Another poster recommended a tug dedicated to ONLY bite redirection. This may be my salvation because of all the toys he has at this point (even squeaky rubber chicken, who he cannot resist under any other situation) I am his favorite chew.

I still need help with this. Results have waxed and waned. I’m getting desperate. I took Negan to a local trainer. Of course, this guy wants to overhaul all the work we’ve done and replace it with his methods. I watched him work with Negan for a few minutes and he was immediately able to obtain a sit, come, lay down, and a stay. All of it, instantly. I was pretty impressed so I asked about the biting. He recommended the lip pinch where you wrap your fingers around his mouth and press his lips into his own teeth until he yelps in pain. I’m desperate (did I mention that?) so I do it. It seemed to work fairly well for a couple of days but Negan soon learned to dodge and weave away from my attempts to capture his face and snout. This leads to struggling with Negan for control of his face which prompts another one of the local trainer’s methods, nape of neck pulling. So, I pulled on Negan’s neck and he cried before running away to the other side of the room and staring at me from beneath scared downturned GSD ears. He comes back over in moments and the whole process begins again. In short, we are fighting. Really. That’s what this is…a fight between me and my puppy. We had about five rounds of this and I was just nauseous. I can’t do this. There is no way that this is the right way to deal with biting behavior. Negan is scared and hurt and angry. I’m sick to my stomach and my hands are shaking because all I ever wanted to do was cuddle the little guy and give him a happy home but instead I am terrorizing my little buddy. I didn’t sign up for this and neither did Negan. Is this really necessary?

I have to know. Please. I am terrified that this approach is going to lead to Negan becoming truly aggressive, that it will make him mean, that it will make him fearful, and that I’m going to ruin the trust we have with each other. Or, am I just being a wimp? Please just let me know the nasty hard ugly truth…is this something that has to be done? Will Negan never learn not to bite if I don’t do this? The local trainer seemed to suggest it.

I think it’s great that this trainer was able to show us so much so quickly with Negan. He is obviously VERY knowledgeable. He says he is a trainer, a behaviorist, and a nutritionist. He does know quite a bit about communicating with a dog. But this feels wrong to me. Just serve it to me straight up, folks. Is this trainer right about the lip pinching and the nape pulling? I don’t know if I can stomach the look on Negan’s face when I do that to him without knowing 100% that this is the right approach.

I'm not an expert on anything. I just take care of my dogs as best as I can....
BUT, I do not allow my dogs to bite on me or disrespect me. I think you are putting people emotions on your puppy. If you think momma dog, siblings, or any other pack member would let a puppy maul them, then you need to rewatch some National Geographic episodes! (I meant that funny, not mean-spirited!)
I just think that you being firm with him was a surprise to him since you had let him have his way before. As long as you don't overreact (I know, it hurts when they think your hand is the best toy EVER!) or correct the pup in anger, I think it will strengthen your relationship... he knows you're the boss and you will be fair. There's less stress when you aren't the boss!
Anyway, I again stress that I'm not an expert and that was my $.02! Oh, and welcome to the wonderful world of GSDs! Where the days are never dull and you must always be on your guard for mischief (and fun)!

 Quote: Christina Lockard

I'm not an expert on anything. I just take care of my dogs as best as I can....
BUT, I do not allow my dogs to bite on me or disrespect me. I think you are putting people emotions on your puppy. If you think momma dog, siblings, or any other pack member would let a puppy maul them, then you need to rewatch some National Geographic episodes! (I meant that funny, not mean-spirited!)
I just think that you being firm with him was a surprise to him since you had let him have his way before. As long as you don't overreact (I know, it hurts when they think your hand is the best toy EVER!) or correct the pup in anger, I think it will strengthen your relationship... he knows you're the boss and you will be fair. There's less stress when you aren't the boss!
Anyway, I again stress that I'm not an expert and that was my $.02! Oh, and welcome to the wonderful world of GSDs! Where the days are never dull and you must always be on your guard for mischief (and fun)!

I appreciate your 2 cents! Very much. I'm doing the best I can with him. I've never really had to deal with puppy biting because all of my pets were either adult rescues or they were lap dogs whose bite was just plain cute. Negan is new territory for me. He's very buck...he's sweet natured...but he's got some attitude on him. I'm going to keep doing my homework and if the only way is to use force then I'll have to do it. Whatever is best in the long run!!!

 Quote: Jeff Clanton

He recommended the lip pinch where you wrap your fingers around his mouth and press his lips into his own teeth until he yelps in pain. I’m desperate (did I mention that?) so I do it. It seemed to work fairly well for a couple of days but Negan soon learned to dodge and weave away from my attempts to capture his face and snout. This leads to struggling with Negan for control of his face which prompts another one of the local trainer’s methods, nape of neck pulling. So, I pulled on Negan’s neck and he cried before running away to the other side of the room and staring at me from beneath scared downturned GSD ears. He comes back over in moments and the whole process begins again. In short, we are fighting. Really. That’s what this is…a fight between me and my puppy. We had about five rounds of this and I was just nauseous. I can’t do this. There is no way that this is the right way to deal with biting behavior. Negan is scared and hurt and angry. I’m sick to my stomach and my hands are shaking because all I ever wanted to do was cuddle the little guy and give him a happy home but instead I am terrorizing my little buddy. I didn’t sign up for this and neither did Negan. Is this really necessary?

(Bold is mine.)

Jeff, it should never get to the point where you have gone five rounds with your puppy. If he doesn't get the message after the first or second time, then put him in his crate or his ex-pen or wherever his safe space is and walk away. Getting into a knock-down, drag-out fight with him is not productive and, as you have experienced, is very distressing for both of you!

I've used a technique similar to the lip pinch that has been described, except that it does not cause pain. I will take hold of the pup's lower jaw, from the front, with my thumb on the inside, just past his lower gums, and my forefinger on the outside, below. I will hold firmly (but not hard enough to hurt) until the pup wants to get away, which is just a second or two. Or, in the alternative, I will simply stick a finger inside their mouth and press down on the tongue. (I think that's similar to what Bob was describing.) Either way, it's an unpleasant gagging sensation for them and they usually want to spit your finger out quickly.

I fully respect that others may disagree with what I've described. I've had a limited number of puppies in my life, and never had one become head shy, but that's not to say it couldn't happen. You have to read your own pup and determine if those kinds of techniques are helpful or not. And, again, it's not a contest between you and the pup. If he doesn't seem to mind the gagging sensation and keeps coming back for more, then the fun ends and he gets put up.

I have also used the technique of stopping a biting frenzy when I'm outside with the pup on a leash by simply holding the leash at arm's length away from me where the pup cannot get close enough to bite. But I'm not just in a standoff with the pup; I am immediately distracting or redirecting him to another activity.

The most important thing is deterrence and redirection! Kelly described in a previous post how she has the tug ready the instant she takes the pup out of the crate. Planning ahead is crucial. Do what you have to do to stop the frantic, excited biting before it even starts; but if it does start and no amount of redirection or other dissuasion is helping, don't keep fighting with the pup. You're only teaching him that if he is persistent, he will get his way.

I understand how much you want to cuddle with your little guy. That will come as he gets older. Most puppies of Negan's age have too short of an attention span for quiet time together (unless they are zonked out). Be patient and enjoy his puppyhood. They grow up fast.

P.S. It sounds like the new Michael Ellis puppy video is great!

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

 Quote: Jeff Clanton

He recommended the lip pinch where you wrap your fingers around his mouth and press his lips into his own teeth until he yelps in pain. I’m desperate (did I mention that?) so I do it. It seemed to work fairly well for a couple of days but Negan soon learned to dodge and weave away from my attempts to capture his face and snout. This leads to struggling with Negan for control of his face which prompts another one of the local trainer’s methods, nape of neck pulling. So, I pulled on Negan’s neck and he cried before running away to the other side of the room and staring at me from beneath scared downturned GSD ears. He comes back over in moments and the whole process begins again. In short, we are fighting. Really. That’s what this is…a fight between me and my puppy. We had about five rounds of this and I was just nauseous. I can’t do this. There is no way that this is the right way to deal with biting behavior. Negan is scared and hurt and angry. I’m sick to my stomach and my hands are shaking because all I ever wanted to do was cuddle the little guy and give him a happy home but instead I am terrorizing my little buddy. I didn’t sign up for this and neither did Negan. Is this really necessary?

(Bold is mine.)

Jeff, it should never get to the point where you have gone five rounds with your puppy. If he doesn't get the message after the first or second time, then put him in his crate or his ex-pen or wherever his safe space is and walk away. Getting into a knock-down, drag-out fight with him is not productive and, as you have experienced, is very distressing for both of you!

I've used a technique similar to the lip pinch that has been described, except that it does not cause pain. I will take hold of the pup's lower jaw, from the front, with my thumb on the inside, just past his lower gums, and my forefinger on the outside, below. I will hold firmly (but not hard enough to hurt) until the pup wants to get away, which is just a second or two. Or, in the alternative, I will simply stick a finger inside their mouth and press down on the tongue. (I think that's similar to what Bob was describing.) Either way, it's an unpleasant gagging sensation for them and they usually want to spit your finger out quickly.

I fully respect that others may disagree with what I've described. I've had a limited number of puppies in my life, and never had one become head shy, but that's not to say it couldn't happen. You have to read your own pup and determine if those kinds of techniques are helpful or not. And, again, it's not a contest between you and the pup. If he doesn't seem to mind the gagging sensation and keeps coming back for more, then the fun ends and he gets put up.

I have also used the technique of stopping a biting frenzy when I'm outside with the pup on a leash by simply holding the leash at arm's length away from me where the pup cannot get close enough to bite. But I'm not just in a standoff with the pup; I am immediately distracting or redirecting him to another activity.

The most important thing is deterrence and redirection! Kelly described in a previous post how she has the tug ready the instant she takes the pup out of the crate. Planning ahead is crucial. Do what you have to do to stop the frantic, excited biting before it even starts; but if it does start and no amount of redirection or other dissuasion is helping, don't keep fighting with the pup. You're only teaching him that if he is persistent, he will get his way.

I understand how much you want to cuddle with your little guy. That will come as he gets older. Most puppies of Negan's age have too short of an attention span for quiet time together (unless they are zonked out). Be patient and enjoy his puppyhood. They grow up fast.

P.S. It sounds like the new Michael Ellis puppy video is great!

Thank you so much for your insight. This last round with Negan was traumatic for both of us and it had me second guessing everything. I love my dog and I don't want to hurt him. It sounds like maybe I need to take everything I've learned about tugs, redirection, prevention, time outs, and even the aversives like pinches or gagging and put them all together. I don't like aversives but I'll do it if it has to be done. I'm relieved to know that other pets have experienced these things and not turned ugly.

Negan and I had an interesting day. It was my day off today so I was able to take him to a dozen different places and experiment with his attention span. We even got to train some recalls, which we have not done outside before. He got to do those with my 11 year old stepson and I at the same time. He hasn't bit either of us since before we left this morning.

Thank you for what you said about cuddling. This was something I mentioned to my wife...that perhaps are expectations are too high and that we are inciting this behavior. He's good for hugs for about 10 seconds after waking and about that amount of time after I stop the truck and open the back door. I can get some amazing little hugs after naps and rides but the rest of the day will lead to bloodshed...literally, my hands are ground beef and bruises.

I think 1 round makes sense. I experimented early this morning with timeouts. I just replaced our morning training with and empty crate and me leaned against it so I could let him out and put him in repeatedly. I could see his wheels were turning but he didn't quite get it yet.

The tug that was mentioned by Kelly was a sizeable success. I purchased a treatbag tug with rabbit fur and a bungie strap handle. It's filled with cat food and salmon jerky. It stinks up the room bad enough that my wife gags but Negan goes nuts for it. I have a 90% success rate with it so long as I'm intereacting with the tug. He stills stops to chomp my face and fingers if I'm not carefully attentive.

Maybe I can pull these ideas together into a nicely segwayed routine so that I don't have to rely 100% on aversives and still make progress.

Do you have an opinion on a marker word for the behavior? Like, if he chomps, I say OW followed by an aversive? Obviously, I wouldn't use the word NO but some other word.

"Hurting" a dog/puppy doesn't mean abuse if it's not an excessive correction.

If the correction isn't firm enough then you get a repeat performance as you experiencing.

When using a physical correction it should be at the lowest level that brings results.
If that doesn't work for that dog pr puppy then the level goes up.

Marker training is absolutely fantastic but to many view it as no physical corrections necessary.

That's not an impossibility but to many dog owners today seem to thing the marker training is "purely positive".

The Michael Ellis videos are top shelf because he teaches the when and how to make proper corrections "when needed".

 Quote: Bob Scott

"Hurting" a dog/puppy doesn't mean abuse if it's not an excessive correction.

If the correction isn't firm enough then you get a repeat performance as you experiencing.

When using a physical correction it should be at the lowest level that brings results.
If that doesn't work for that dog pr puppy then the level goes up.

Marker training is absolutely fantastic but to many view it as no physical corrections necessary.

That's not an impossibility but to many dog owners today seem to thing the marker training is "purely positive".

The Michael Ellis videos are top shelf because he teaches the when and how to make proper corrections "when needed".

I really appreciate all of the feedback on this. I feel a lot more confident the aversives discussed here. I had hoped that I wouldn't have to use any aversives until much later (1 year or more) and I didn't really have a firm concept of when or how. To me, he's just a baby. I shared this forum discussion with my wife, who informed me that she'd bitten her lip when I first complained to her about the crying. I didn't know my stepkids until they were already over 6 so I missed toddler rearing and toddler vaccinations. Apparently, making your little baby cry is a balanced part of a healthy upbringing and I'm being a wimp dad, lol. I'll buck up and get it done. It's evident from every person I've discussed this with that NO BITE is imperative to his upbringing...even if it means aversives.

Thank you, folks.

Be fair but firm ESPECIALLY with a puppy!