Sorry I don't explain myself properly Kelly, I do apologize.
The injured back is not him, but a prev injury, so I have to use the table to groom.
The rest was him, on the table.
And I completely agree with everything you said.
The chipped tooth was his head ramming into my chin when rearing up.
The wrist was when I had him on the table, my daughter opened the door, and he tried to flip out, twisting it. The bone I am not quiet sire how we managed that!
When I put him on the table, he starts up right away. He did not want his body manipulated . That is where the leaning his body starts. He will fall off the table if I don't hold him up. I tried applying pressure in the ribs, advice I won't use again, he just leaned in harder.
The black and blue leg is from his reacting to hitting the leash. It's the left leg, when he hits the end, he is flailing, biting the leash clip and the leash while barking and basically freaking out, and I end up being in the kick zone.
I realize now, that I need to be more manly in managing this boy.
After re reading my very confusing long posts, I should have been more clear.
I did a ton of reading on the Nilf training, and have fully started it today. I skipped his supper yesterday, and didn't start training until 11am. He was goid and hungry, and ready to work. He did very well for day one, and we worked shirt sessions throughout the day, on the walk, and with the grooming table, ending in our vehicle.
Not one bark, whine, I applied slight pressure on turns and to get him to load up in the car, Mark, release, and have been working on eye contact to receive the award.
So I have to make sure I keep this up, every day. All meals mixed with rollover goes in the bag. I think we were much too lenient on him, allowing the pushiness, and not showing proper leadership.
Jim was very impressed with his sits. He even over his rear closer, something i have never asked of him.
I def will heed your advice, and slow down. I am so glad for this site! With out it i would be lost! Without you wonderful people I would feel over whelmed.

I apologize for the grammar, from now on I will type in notepad, and than copy and paste! So I can re read my messes !

I still say this is more dog then you can handle regardless of what's going on.

You've had him for some time and it just seems things are escalating.

Think about your family and not so much about the dog.

I respect your opinion Bob, immensely. I read my post and replies to Jim.
He is giving me the decision, but with strings. One more fit, or freak out where I get hurt, and he is out, or gone.

I'm going fully with what Mike and Kelly wrote. I must say, it all matches with what I've learned about my dogs and also thanks to them. It's cleaar, with my short experience of 6yrs this doesn't say much.

I of course can see Bob's concerns. Especially because of the children. But is this apart from training matters not also a question of organisation? Becky wrote, the dog doesn't really bite but snap. My dogs did this too. I had to teach them not to. It needed quite a lot of consistency and time. I also think that their aging helped a lot.

I apolgize, Bob, I don't want to speak against your warnings. They need to be taken very seriously without doubt. And you have so many decades of experience. But the way Becky describes the situation, there seem to be clear improvements too, or not?.Does this not give a great impetus to go on with her dog?. Of course, the safety of children always first.

Absolutely no need for apology Christina.

This forum is all about listening to everyone with equal fairness.

What I see Bob saying in layman terms, and he is absolutely correct in saying so, is the dog is six months, has issues that a seasoned trainer could probably work out, but that I am not , due to lack of experience. His response basically says, the dog is 6 months, and you have trouble, what will you do when he is bigger, and worse in behaviour.
And I agree, and slightly disagree. Right now, he will have to work for his meals. I now have him even eating in the car, a place he used to go nuts in. This summer we are supposed to fly down for a holiday. I am going to book us into a reputable trainer for the entire time we are down. After that, if we make no headway, we will bring him back ourselves. That is the plan.
Bob, I respect everything you say, but you know me, I push to the last bit.
And I recently learned Jim instills no obedience in him period. I woke early and watched him take a yanking bouncing Harry out the door, get dragged down the stairs. And after the potty, he repeated lay down at least 10 times before Harry actually did . If this happens daily, no wonder he does this with me. We had a talk over it yest, and today Harry was surprised Jim didn't let him yank him from the crate to the door. And miffed.
I told Jim if we can't be on the same page, he goes. Otherwise my work is pointless.

Yest, with me, we passed by a poker derby, one bark, a small leash pop, and luring the watch me, and he prances by the neighbors, into the yard, a few sits and a final tug play. If I have to cut Jim's access until I have proofed his obedience and manners, I will. He lives old school, with old school ways, and I disagree with most of them.
He likes free feed, no leash, free roam. I told him he is welcome, when he replaces the cost of Harry, and takes him to work everyday. I am all for certain things when earned, but manners and respect are number one right now.
Please do continue to respond, I am open to anything and everything. And the daughter us happy to join training when it is safe to do so to help proof things such as distractions etc.

Don't loose your courage, Becky. Believe me almost nothing is pointless just because you two are not on the same page. Of course it would be much better and easier if you were. But the dogs will learn to distinguish between the rules of you and Jim (obviosly more non-rules)

I had this too in the topic barking. For some time they were barking like devils. My husband wants that they alert and at the same time he wants them to shut up. We can't ask such contradictory behaviors from them. My husband thinks he can make them shut up by shouting at them. In the beginning I myself did this too. But then I've learned in varios courses and DVDs that territorial barking is such a normal behavior. Dogs see this as their job to warn the rest of their pack.

When then the leader comes and shows them, he himself will now assume this task, they'll understand that either everything's is ok or if not the leader will ensure that it will be. If now my husband shouts at them, they think the leader is barking too, so there must be a good reason to go on with it.

I was at that time very angry with my hubby, but after a while I fell in a slip-down-my-hump-mood and over time my dogs learned to see my behavour as different than his. This was valid also for other issues the dogs had. If I'm not mistaken, it was even Bob, who told me, that what actually counts is that I am calm and absolutely consistent with insisting on my rules, that dogs are smart enough to get this. Certainly the ideal thing is the whole family pulls the same rope.

Same thing, when putting them in their kennel. He drags them in there, when they enerve him. It's then like punishing. I in between need only to say their name and "Kennel!" and they follow me to there. Two of them then already go by themselves.

I could go on like this. There are still plenty of things I haven't reached yet, but I've at least captured, I must look out for my errors and gradually I'll learn this too.
Wittiest thing of all: Hubby is more and more part of the pack. He's seen that icertain parts I had success and without a word from me he begins to adjust himself.

By the way, I too never free feed and even if they just get a little treat between there sesions, they have to do something for it. Principle: Nothing in life is free. Very mean, isn't it?

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

I'm going fully with what Mike and Kelly wrote. I must say, it all matches with what I've learned about my dogs and also thanks to them. It's cleaar, with my short experience of 6yrs this doesn't say much.

I of course can see Bob's concerns. Especially because of the children. But is this apart from training matters not also a question of organisation? Becky wrote, the dog doesn't really bite but snap. My dogs did this too. I had to teach them not to. It needed quite a lot of consistency and time. I also think that their aging helped a lot.

I apolgize, Bob, I don't want to speak against your warnings. They need to be taken very seriously without doubt. And you have so many decades of experience. But the way Becky describes the situation, there seem to be clear improvements too, or not?.Does this not give a great impetus to go on with her dog?. Of course, the safety of children always first.

This post is by and from KELLY, who asked me to post it ...

Christina I think bob's concerns lie in the fact that the behaviors are escalating - what starts as a snap progresses to mouthing progresses to mouthing with light pressure progresses to pressure with bruising progresses to a full on bite breaking skin. If you don't stop the progression- especially in a large breed puppy you can have a serious problem by the time the dog is a year old- and there are children in the home

No matter how good a trainer you are, there will always be dogs out there that are too much for you - knowing your limitations and being honest with yourself are extremely important in keeping everyone safe.

Again I am not there so I can't speak to this particular situation - I do know that from the first day in my home teeth are not allowed on skin no matter the age of the pup.

I am lucky in the fact that I have 2 great dogs to model proper behavior, but even without them the rules are the rules.

Just adding a couple more pennies to the pot ...

(From Kelly)

Sounds promising Christina!
For him, nothing in life is free works. We had a great grooming session, I use the word tabke, and if he keeps his when bday in s side down, I give him food in front of his nose, it works well, if he lifts his head, I say nope, and if he places it back down I say good, and reward. We even got the paw pads shaved down! And Jim was in the room almost the entire time, so he could see my progress!
After words he got a dehydrated hamburger patty, called woofers. Great treats for an awesome session.
Since he has to work for all his food, he was able to relax more, and actually listen to my words.
And now after only 5 days if Nilf training, he doesn't care for the bone. I guess it was more of an object to him.
I am enjoying this switch immensely, it certainly is helping build our relationship, and he has not bruised me anywhere since Thursday!
He has not reacted to the leash either, as I now open the collar, and wait for him to put his head on it to attach it on. He gets marked for that too. And tho I am not able to have him interact with people yet, I was able to converse with a neighbor, while marking him for sitting in front of me and looking at my face for cues.
Jim is now putting him in long downs in the am, and that is helping calm him before we start our session. I am so proud of Harry's progress! He even cockks his head a bit before a mark, it's adorable!