"But how do you train a dog to obey a command only if YOU issue it?? "

Proofing? If you give your dog a command such as,.."stay" and someone else says..."COME", You would correct if he broke the stay because he faulted not so much the reason-(listening to someone else’s command). If you did that enough times, with a variety of different people, a variety of different commands and scenarios, he would learn that is wise to listen to you only.
Maybe someone could help me understand why temperament plays a part in this?

That's one way to "train" the dog to only listen to you right? I mean, if the dog is being obedient to you and under your control, he won't listen to other commands because that would mean he would have to disobey you.

If your dog is not under any command,..just roaming the yard sniffing, and the neighbor says "platz!" and he listens, I don't know what to tell you..lol I suppose you could have bigger problems.

Now, I know what I'm about to say doesn't work for everyone, and I know there are reasons why you might not want to do this, but I'm just sharing this for the sake of sharing information. I am a responsible dog owner and this works for me.

My dog assumes when someone other than my wife and I give him a command, this person is trouble and he begins aggressive posturing. When someone tries to baby talk to my dog, he assumes they are a bad guy. If someone walks up to me and ignores the dog and only talks to me, he assumes you are OK. Any attention to the dog causes him to posture.

As for what language to train a dog? I trained my dog in english, german, and some words I just made up because I liked how they sounded for that particular action. Some commands really aren't even words, they are just sounds. Like we discussed in a different topic,. I don't say NO, I say..ett. I always liked "hip" for the finish or return to heel. Again, I just like the way it sounds and what you see when the command is given. Some of the uncommon bite commands I have heard are; tack (probably short for attack), yaah, action, take’em, and boo. I still think BOO! Is really funny.

There might be some errors in what I’m about to say, so maybe someone knows the real deal or maybe I’m just pronouncing things incorrectly.
Ok, once upon a time, I could not use the common “giblout” for bark on command because that dog knew “out” meant – get it OUT of your mouth, including barking. OUT was the stop barking command. So I started saying “Gib-la” and that worked.

Now here’s the part where I’m a bit confused. The “fuss”,”foose” and “fus”. Doesn’t one of those mean heel, and one means bite? But they sound very similar and are even spelt sorta the same, right? In German? I don’t know, like I said, confused on this.

Ok,
Fuss ( pronouced fooss ) is the heel command in German.
The word bite in German is Fass ( pronounced Fuss ). However....most trainers use Pack Inh ( pronounced Puck ean ) as the attack command, it means basically "grab" in German.
That clear it up?

And I think Michael has the correct understanding that a ppd, simply by it's temperament, isn't likely to obey the command of strangers.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, a ppd is made up of both training and correct temperament for the job. Far too many sport dogs are being sold as ppd's, resulting in questions like "But how do you train a dog to obey a command only if YOU issue it??" That type of question should not even enter someone's mind with a well-trained ppd. It indicates a problem that shouldn't even have to be considered.

OK, let me hop off my soap box now.

QUOTE: I've said this before and I'll say it again, a ppd is made up of both training and correct temperament for the job. EBD

Probably stupid question (from a newbie to PPD training): When deciding on the dog with the right temperament for PPD training, is the first thing to look at the lineage, or an individual assessment of the dog?

I mean (I think), are there dogs within great lines who just don't have the right temperament? Or can a person base the decision on the breeder and the line?

I hope this question isn't so stupid that it belongs in some "lower than basic" section of the board.

Preach on Will <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It cracks me up to hear my dog is a personal protection dog because he has a Sch. title. Then they watch my male who has his PDC and they always say the same thing "That dog looks like he wants to kill that guy" mean while our other decoy who just did the bite work on their Sch. Titled dog is petting their dog and the dog is licking his hand!!!! If a decoy reached out to pet my dog after bite work my dog would take his hand off!

It also kills me to see a decoy correct someones dog during bite work. I mean come on nobody should correct your dog but you. Just like the dog should careless what the other person is saying.

Sorry I went on a little rant <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Individual assessment for sure.
There are always exceptions to the rule ( heck, they may be great Show Lines dogs that could do good ppd work, if you consider the concept of the bell-shaped curve, anything is possible ).
There are lines that are more favorable to ppd work, of course. But if there was a way to guarantee that a dog from those breeding's could do civil work, every Police Canine vendor would be using those lines and thanking their lucky stars. Sadly.....you can stack the deck in your favor, but you can't get that guarantee. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Not a stupid question at all there Connie! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

QUOTE: Individual assessment for sure. END

Thanks. So then a person just getting into PPD work, who has been studying videos and participating in police dog training, would take along, say, a police dog trainer, when going to look at possible acquisitions?

After many years of strictly rescue dogs for myself and training for general obedience for others' dogs (and my own, of course), acquiring a dog for a specific purpose is brand-new territory.

I am guessing that the level of temperament required would vary quite a bit depending on whether the dog was for personal PPD only, or for competition.......?

Thanks again.

Well, a good sport trainer that has knowledge of defense ( many do ) should be able to work the candidate and determine if the dog will go civil - however, a trainer that works more with ppd's or PSD's would be the best choice.
For people without access to a skilled and knowledgeable decoy, you're putting your trust into the vendor of the dog - carefully check references and their reputation, and if it looks fishy, go elsewhere!
And I see a lot of otherwise good sport dog vendors try to dabble in the ppd field and do poorly - ppd's are a different concept and requires a different set of skills and experience to work in.

I've said it several times before but it bears repeating - the ppd field is the largest area of scams in the dog world today. PPD vendors that don't have a clue about what they're doing outnumber good vendors by a margin of ten to one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

QUOTing Will: I've said it several times before but it bears repeating - the ppd field is the largest area of scams in the dog world today. PPD vendors that don't have a clue about what they're doing outnumber good vendors by a margin of ten to one. END

OK, thanks. Since I know a police dog trainer and his helper, then one of them should probably be the person to go with me.....and also the person to recommend where we go. I guess I start by asking next time I observe training where their dogs come from.

Yes, That makes it very clear. Thanks Will!

I skimmed over this thread, and I just want to say I'm not commenting at all on whether or not people should train in one language or another..I just wanted to list a better translation guide of the Czech commands for English speakers, because as English speakers, we have a tendency to change the endings on Czech words to something that sounds more natural to us.. For example, The word Ne means No. It sounds very strange to Americans. We tend to say Nay, because we dont have words that end in 'eh'..

(Also, these are just pronunciation guides for the ones I see on the Dr P page. I have listened to the audio as well, so I'm sure of what they are saying - <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Note: This disagrees slightly with the pronunciation guide on Dr Ps page. If you use these commands you might think Im incorrect.. they will seem like subtle differences, but I promise, to a Czech they are massive differences.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Second note: I am NOT saying these are the Correct Czech commands, as I dont use them. Im only saying how to pronounce what Dr P has listed..

And I seem to have written a novel.. sorry!!

Here's some of them

1. Heel - K Noze - 'No-Zeh'

(The Zeh rhymes with 'Zed'. the K is pronounced so subtly that I think an American would come closer just leaving it off, honestly. These single letters are very common in Czech are often almost inaudible. like on the soundfile.)

2. Sit - Sedni - 'Said -Nee' (same as Dr P says)

3. Stay - Zustan - 'Zoo - Stahn'

('Stahn' rhymes with 'khan'. In Czech this n has an accent mark over it, which makes it seem like it should have a slight 'yeh' sound at the end. It would be alot like the spanish n in manana.. but I dont hear it in the audio file, so likely another inaudible marking..
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

4. Down - Lehni - 'Leh- Heh-Nee'

(this is a 3 syllable word.. the "leh" and "heh" should rhyme with 'head'.)

5. Come - Ke mne - 'Keh - minyeh' (said quickly, like a 2 syllable word)

('Keh' rhymes with 'head', so does the 'yeh'.)

6. Stand - Stuj - 'Stoo -eee'

7. Go out - Vpred - Perzed

(when a V starts a word, its sometimes pronounced as an F sound. dont ask me why.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> .. but its almost inaudible and the 'z' there rhymes with the 'eas' in 'treasure' .. kind of 'zh' sound..

8. Bite - Drz - Derzsh -

(again this is a 'zh' sound.. not really an sh sound.. )

9. Out - Pust - 'Poost'

(there is no 'sh' sound in this..though the t does have a little y sound at the end, but would be almost inaudible.. )

10. Bark - Stekej - 'Shtek-ay'

11. Narcotics - Hledej oznac - 'Heh-leh-day Oze-natch'

12. Kennel - Kotec - 'Ko-Tets'

(not a z sound at the end, the s is really a clear s)

13. Go ahead - Volno - 'Vol - no'
(yep, just like it looks! but I included it to show sometimes te V is pronounced )

14. Go inside - Pojd sem - Po-eed-sem

(FYI, this is also used as Come, and its the most common command I hear when Im out walking my dog.. )

15. What is going on? - Co je to - "Tso - yeh - toe."

(literally, 'what is it?')

16. Good - Houdny - 'Hode-nee'

17. Ok - vyborne - Vee-born -yeh

(is this really 'ok'? in Czech conversation this means more like excellent.. or something much more than ok.. )

18. Eat - Vem si - 'Vehm-see'

19. Stand still - Ruce vzhuru - 'Rootseh zeh-who-roo'

20. Leave it - Nech to - 'Neh-hek Toe'
(this ones hard to explain, the ch in Nech is a clearing your throat sound, like that found in arabic.. )


The nice thing about Czech is that the alphabet pronunciation is the same in almost all words. If you can see the word in print (including the Czech characters) you can be pretty much assured of what it should sound like.

Grammar is a whole nother issue that I will never grasp... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That said.. I'm still an American with a Czech dog in the Czech Republic teaching with English commands..

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hope this helps anyone who might like to use Czech.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />