Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Sandy Moore ]
#156181 - 09/25/2007 10:23 AM |
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I agree, my rant is over. And your right, the point of this thread is "chips causing cancer".
Did not really mean to get so off topic but when something like that is said, in an accusatory manner, it gets me going. Sorry, to all that had to put up with it.
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#156183 - 09/25/2007 10:47 AM |
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Hey, I participated too. No apologies necessary from you. Maybe from me however, but I did feel a need to defend how much I watch over my Lear - he's my precious
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Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#156189 - 09/25/2007 11:28 AM |
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Guys, I have been gone due do some undexpected bad news that I don't want to get into here, but I do want to respond...
I am sorry that you all are offended by the idea that you lost control of your dog when they run away. I should have just said, dogs running away are handler/owner mistakes. That is what I meant. It is a little less offensivy sounding.
I am not sure why you all are arguing this with me. In fact, I was downright surprised when I saw how many were offended by
these thoughts, especially considering this advice comes from the artice on groundwork:
"ALWAYS ON A LEASH
The instant I let the dog out of the crate I hook a leash to him so he is always under complete control. During this period I never have the dog off leash-- not even when I walk him from the crate to the door.
When the time comes that I do allow him more time out of the crate, he is always on a leash. If I watch TV he is on leash and laying by my feet. If I work on the computer he is on leash tethered to my desk. He does not have free run of the house for months.
In fact when a house dog starts to misbehave in the house (chew or mark) it needs to go back in the crate and stay on leash when it's in the house. Being loose in the house is an earned privilege. Pet owners often forget this."
So, if the dog somehow bursts through a door, it is obviously not being controlled. Ed says in Introducing Dogs into a home with Cats:
"I put my dogs on a leash when I bring them in to show them that coming into the house is a controlled experience and not someplace where they can charge around and be crazy. In other words, by having them on a leash, I set the tone of how I want them to act in the house right off the bat." The person who had that happen admits that it was her fault in her post above. (although, I would have never guessed the dog could have escaped through the screen door, either!)
If the dog can get out of your locked house, than the dog should be in a crate. If the dog can break through the crate, Ed would love to sell you an alluminum crate! In the Basic Obedience video, Ed talks about putting one of his dogs in his place and leaving the house for awhile. The dog must stay on his place, but if an intruder comes in, the dog knows it is "showtime" and can have free reign to defend the house. To me, this is the solution for those who want to keep the dog from being stolen while in their crates. If the dog is an "escape artist," I am not sure why you wouldn't want to crate it, especially if it is expensive, as you say...
By the way, if your dogs are expensive and so high drive that they are going to break through kennels and chain link fence, etc., isn't time to think about preventing this instead of putting an RFID in and thinking your problems will go away? I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't shell out a few more bucks for a nice crate considering the big money you all pay for these dogs.
I don't want to go on anymore with this argument, though, so here it will stop, at least from my end. I wasn't even going to post it, but I felt that I should at least clarify where I was coming from. You see, I have just been trying to follow the advice of Ed for this first experience training my dog, and it is working pretty well so far. I have also selected a trainer for a CGC class that Bella and I will be taking, and it is good to hear this trainer saying that Ed's philosophy is good, even without hearing of Ed or his videos. I will continue to keep my dog in her crate when I am gone until I can trust her to stay home without destroying anything, unlocking the door and walking out, etc.
Edited to add: Bottom line, I love you guys and I am not trying to offend anyone, I just am trying to follow Ed's advice, as best as I understand it.
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Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Rick Miller ]
#156192 - 09/25/2007 12:07 PM |
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I am sorry that you all are offended by the idea that you lost control of your dog when they run away.
Here we go again......
I am not sure why you all are arguing this with me. In fact, I was downright surprised when I saw how many were offended by
these thoughts, especially considering this advice comes from the artice on groundwork:
"ALWAYS ON A LEASH
Great article, but somehow I did not ever get that my dog has to be on a leash all of thier life, or did I miss something?
The instant I let the dog out of the crate I hook a leash to him so he is always under complete control. During this period I never have the dog off leash-- not even when I walk him from the crate to the door.
When the time comes that I do allow him more time out of the crate, he is always on a leash. If I watch TV he is on leash and laying by my feet. If I work on the computer he is on leash tethered to my desk. He does not have free run of the house for months.
I agree with this when you are raising a puppy or young dog, however, there IS a time when they know the rules and get to be leash free....it is called maturity and good training.
In fact when a house dog starts to misbehave in the house (chew or mark) it needs to go back in the crate and stay on leash when it's in the house. Being loose in the house is an earned privilege. Pet owners often forget this."
So you basically use the crate for punishment rather than redirecting the dog to an acceptable behavior so that they learn the rules of being out of the crate. AND I am NOT a PET owner. I have high drive, working dogs and there is a severe difference. In no way do I look negatively at pet owners at all though, until they try and tell me that I can't handle my dogs. I totally invite them to come and handle one of my dogs.
So, if the dog somehow bursts through a door, it is obviously not being controlled. Ed says in Introducing Dogs into a home with Cats:
I think even Ed will agree that dogs can absolutely burst through a door after something that has triggered drive, even though they were just performing a nice down stay. Dogs are dogs for crying out loud....they do sometimes do things that catches handlers off gaurd......doesn't mean the handler lost control.......it means that the dog decided to do what it wanted.....Do you work on it, well DUH....of course, but it may have just been an isolated incident too......
"I put my dogs on a leash when I bring them in to show them that coming into the house is a controlled experience and not someplace where they can charge around and be crazy. In other words, by having them on a leash, I set the tone of how I want them to act in the house right off the bat." The person who had that happen admits that it was her fault in her post above. (although, I would have never guessed the dog could have escaped through the screen door, either!)
YEAH she admitted that her PUPPY escaped......puppies do stupid stuff all the time....had it happened before....NO......so how was she to know that the dog would crash through the screen door? She wouldn't know.....did she correct the problem......YEP.....GEESH!!!
If the dog can get out of your locked house, than the dog should be in a crate. If the dog can break through the crate, Ed would love to sell you an alluminum crate! In the Basic Obedience video, Ed talks about putting one of his dogs in his place and leaving the house for awhile. The dog must stay on his place, but if an intruder comes in, the dog knows it is "showtime" and can have free reign to defend the house. To me, this is the solution for those who want to keep the dog from being stolen while in their crates. If the dog is an "escape artist," I am not sure why you wouldn't want to crate it, especially if it is expensive, as you say...
When did anyone say their dog escaped a locked house? I remember a screen door, which is completely different.
AND, I bet Ed's dog is not on a leash any longer and stays in place because he is properly trained and does not need to be tethered anymore.
By the way, if your dogs are expensive and so high drive that they are going to break through kennels and chain link fence, etc., isn't time to think about preventing this instead of putting an RFID in and thinking your problems will go away? I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't shell out a few more bucks for a nice crate considering the big money you all pay for these dogs.
Buddy, I have three aluminum crates and also plastic airline crates, my chainlink kennels are commercial grade and I "shell out" more money for my dogs a month than you probably make in a month.....the chips in my dogs are in case we are out searching for a MISSING PERSON in woods or on the prairie and we get seperated.......yes it does happen to handlers......but not very often......
I don't want to go on anymore with this argument
could have fooled me with your last few comments
You see, I have just been trying to follow the advice of Ed for this first experience training my dog and you have the gall to tell me that I lose control and this is your first dog?????
and it is working pretty well so far. any dog training will go well if you never let them off their leash
Ed's philosophy is good
Ed's philosophy is AWESOME, but you have to interpret it right.
Edited to add: Bottom line, I love you guys and I am not trying to offend anyone, I just am trying to follow Ed's advice, as best as I understand it.
Rick, this is your first dog, do you really think you are in a position to enter a board full of people that have had many many dogs throughout their lives, and try to tell them that they do not know how to control their dogs?
Please be honest with your answer.
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Rick Miller ]
#156193 - 09/25/2007 12:10 PM |
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Rick, I think you offended people because your post about the microchips implied that the only people who would need to microchip their dogs were bad dog owners.
You may not have meant that, but it certainly came across that way.
Sometimes emails don't read the way they should.
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Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Janice Jarman ]
#156195 - 09/25/2007 12:22 PM |
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Microchipping is just another way to be prepared for something that COULD happen. I don't PLAN on losing my dog, 'nor do I think anyone else does.
Sometimes chips won't even help trying to find a dog. ( something had just happened where a hunter lost his dog for a good five days here, spend hundreds and talked to anyone they could, even flew a plane over the area they were in looking for their dog, and someone finally called in a tip to help them finally catch the lab. )
So some people are getting collars with GPS.
Preparing for the worst is a lot better than ignoring it.
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Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#156198 - 09/25/2007 12:52 PM |
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Oh, Carol. You saved me so much time by saying everything I was shouting while reading his arrogant, inexperienced post. If I thought he could handle it, I'd send him one for a week and see if he changes his tune...
I did mention a dog escaping (he says he just "left"-he didn't "escape" :crazy from a locked house. It was my dear, darling Caleb...Houdini Extraordinaire. He has no problem leaving the house. My deadbolts are the kind where you only need a key from the outside, so he just turns the lock like anyone else.
Sure, in a crate he's stuck (he's not the destructive type-more of a mastermind), but I don't feel good about leaving him crated where someone could potentially cart him off w/out risk of bodily harm. If he's loose, or kenneled, no way is someone going to steal him w/out some problems. Yes, I paid a small fortune for him as a pup, and with the HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of hours I've spent with him, not to mention the fact that he's one of my closest friends, I do worry about him being stolen. And Rick, I don't think you even want to know what we spend on our dogs in any given month. I think your head would spin.
Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but you're out of line and your last post was in no way a satisfactory apology.
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Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#156204 - 09/25/2007 02:32 PM |
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better not say that.....
Edited by Carol Boche (09/25/2007 02:32 PM)
Edit reason: thinking twice about a comment
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#156217 - 09/25/2007 04:20 PM |
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I did mention a dog escaping (he says he just "left"-he didn't "escape" :crazy from a locked house. It was my dear, darling Caleb...Houdini Extraordinaire. He has no problem leaving the house. My deadbolts are the kind where you only need a key from the outside, so he just turns the lock like anyone else.
Are you serious?! I would love to see that! It reminds me of when Will Ferrill comes home to find his dog in "The Anchorman," and the dog is talking to him telling him that he has eaten the whole wheel of cheese in the fridge. Ferrill replies: "That's amazing...I'm not even angry!"
Sure, in a crate he's stuck (he's not the destructive type-more of a mastermind), but I don't feel good about leaving him crated where someone could potentially cart him off w/out risk of bodily harm. If he's loose, or kenneled, no way is someone going to steal him w/out some problems.
I think this argument is the best one that you all have made, yet. If the dog is crated, how is he to protect your home, yourself, herself, etc.? I think it is definatly something to think about. However, unless the person entering your home knows you have your dog crated, won't the bark scare the person off, anyway?
Yes, I paid a small fortune for him as a pup, and with the HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of hours I've spent with him, not to mention the fact that he's one of my closest friends, I do worry about him being stolen. And Rick, I don't think you even want to know what we spend on our dogs in any given month. I think your head would spin.
You are right! I don't want to know, nor do I care. I think it goes without saying that someone spending thousands on a dog will be spending large amounts of money containing the dog.
I do think it is odd how you all insinuate that you are better than me because you spend more money on the dogs than I make in a month. I am not sure I understand the logic there, but I think it is just a personal attack. Well, you are right. Bella is a free dog that I adopted from a person that I knew who wasn't taking care of her. I am a poor person, and I cannot afford to spend large chuncks of money on her, although I probably spend too much on her for my budget.
Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but you're out of line and your last post was in no way a satisfactory apology.
I am not offering an apology, here, other than to say I am sorry that you are offended. If the dog is loose-it is not under control. Does a dog need to be under 100% control all of the time. When it is a puppy, or recently adopted and going through, groundwork, yes. I agree with Carol that as a dog grows up and matures, more and more time is spent off leash. Bella will be getting there soon!!
If I thought he could handle it, I'd send him one for a week and see if he changes his tune... .
You all are right here, too. I am sure your dogs would snicker at me! So, please, I don't want any high-drive mals or GSDs surprising me at the door tomarrow morning, I will admit I am not ready for that, yet!...
and it is working pretty well so far.
any dog training will go well if you never let them off their leash
This is a really good point. Bella and I are still working on distractions, so I have been trying to add distance with the long line, and then give her a command to do while she is away from me. She does pretty good at it so far. I would love to invest in a remote trainer and an ecollar, but I am poor, and therefore bad...
Edited to add: Bottom line, I love you guys and I am not trying to offend anyone, I just am trying to follow Ed's advice, as best as I understand it.
Rick, this is your first dog, do you really think you are in a position to enter a board full of people that have had many many dogs throughout their lives, and try to tell them that they do not know how to control their dogs?
Please be honest with your answer.
Carol, I never said you don't know HOW to control your dogs! Is that what you are so upset about?
I just try to use the tools I have to keep the dog with me: The crate, the leash on walks, my voice when she runs free. It sounds like you have invested lots of money on really good tools. I am having a hard time understanding where we disagree...
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Re: RFID Chips linked to cancer
[Re: Keith Larson ]
#156218 - 09/25/2007 04:32 PM |
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This thread is heading nowhere, it should be locked
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