Quote: Howard Knauf

 Quote: Susan Shott

on command and without hesitation, savagely take down a child.

An unfair assessment as well, Carol

Yeah, I did not care for that one either and just did not comment on it....not sure what that was supposed to mean. No one here would ever promote that.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending what she said in her post regarding comments like that, I am saying that we should not use comments that she did not make but rather stick to what she actually typed.

OK. I can agree with that. But comments regarding members of this forum promoting the mutilation of children with dogs should not go unaddressed. I saw tit for tat. Jennifer's comment may have been unfair...but Susan's was a slap in my face. As an LEO and PSD/PPD trainer I take great offense to such comments. What bothers me most is that nobody else called her on it. Seems she's guilty of doing the same thing she accuses us of doing.

Back to the topic though.

Howard

I to have had lots of help from the people on this board. And I think it is unfair that you would take on persons old post and make everyone eals feel the some way, cause we don't.
And to say that "on, command and without hesitation, savagely take down a child", I think everyone here would agree with me when I say that I don't know anyone on this board that would send there PPD on a child. I don't think it's fair to blaim every PPD trainer of such a bad thing.

Susan,

Was that comment a misprint?

OR, did you read Judy's thread about Gunnar and the neighbor/paperboy and misunderstand? I am hoping that this is what you read and thought was something different than what it was.

NO one here would ever promote a dog attacking a child. We do not even promote dogs biting the UPS or Postman. The dogs here are carefully trained to recognize a threat and are trained to be neutral around anything other than that.

I participated in that thread of Judy's way back and I feel like I have to clear some things up, quickly, I hope:

From her thread:

 Quote: judy t

I'm not trying to teach him to show aggression. I'm trying to figure out how to teach him to ignore people who invite him over.

 Quote: judy t

No. No PP training anymore. I figured out I was trying to put a square peg in a round hole about 6 months ago. I absolutely love that he's friendly but there is a point at which it becomes a problem.

 Quote: judy t

I just do NOT understand why everyone's commenting about PP training, messing up his personality, or "gee if you don't want him....". I never said I wanted any kind of PP training! Where did you all get that in my original post? I never said I wanted aggression! I never said I wanted a dog that would bite!

I'm looking for training help. For instance, why the heck can't he be trained to, I don't know, sit outside in the yard and NOT listen to a stranger call him over? Just ignore the stranger. Why can’t he be trained to NOT take a treat from a stranger (like the fed ex guy). Just not take the treat.

Where oh where do you all get the idea that I want some drooling, rabid, vicious, biting, "go for the balls" maniac?

These are just a handful of responses from her in which she was trying over and over again to clarify her point from people who read it the way you did.

I also know Judy, and while she doesn't post here that often anymore, she DOES love her dog and she DOES value him for all that he is. She was only wanting her dog to show some discrimination in who he approaches. I think that's fair, safe and reasonable. I understand why you misunderstood her and I understood why people misunderstood her at the time. But she DOES value her dog and her post was jsut sarcastic enough that some people got the wrong idea.

Your post was eloquently written and I applaud your dogs and the work they do. A good service dog will humble me every time I see them. Actually, a well-trained dog of any kind will humble me.

But I really hope that by now you are seeing that A.) That Judy wasn't trying to turn her dog into a PPD. She was trying to train some "safety features" into her happy-go-lucky dog. And B.) Very few, if any, people on this board would think that it's a good idea to change a dog's basic temperament.

And as for the e-collar thing...I'm not sure what you are specifically refering to, but Judy was in the habit of walking her dog with an e-collar instead of a leash around the neighborhood already. No one suggested she buy one, or use one, for the purpose of traumatizing her dog.

At any rate, welcome to the board. While there is a section here for service dogs it is true that they aren't as well represented as Schutzhund dog, PPD dogs, SAR dogs or pet dogs. That's where you will (I hope) come in.

Welcome to the board.

My apologies in advance to everyone regarding the length of my post! You may want to grab a cup of coffee!

 Quote: susan shott

Of course not. But in the thread mentioned, the owner wanted a PPD, was bitterly disappointed when she got a super friendly dog instead, and ranted that the dog was the village idiot, among multiple other insults. This reflects a very hostile attitude toward the super friendly temperament that is essential for an assistance dog.

Oh, where oh where do I start? Susan, you are so uninformed, I probably shouldn't even bother to answer here. But I have a profound respect for the other board members and the help they've given me over the last couple of years that I now feel compelled to stop you from yammering about what you clearly don't know - me and my dog! Oh, and I'd bet the farm that the outstanding treatment and love my dog receives from me would meet or exceed your treatment of your dog.

So, let's begin, shall we?

First of all, it doesn't matter that the thread is a year old...I still feel the same way today. What you failed to comprehend was what I was trying to accomplish in that thread. However, what happened on that thread was nothing short of a trainwreck. I made the mistake of being facetious in my choice for a title to the thread. Lesson learned.

Your comments were wrong all over the place but there were a couple of real doozies you used to describe me: "Bitterly disappointed" and "a very hostile attitude". Hmmm, please tell me you're not in charge of anything or that you're chosen field does not require astuteness?

 Quote:

A very different response would be "Sh*t! Not what I planned on. Still--what a lovely temperament for a different home or as a therapy or assistance dog. Time to find the right home for this dog so he'll be cherished and I can get the PPD I want." Or: "Not what I expected, but still a fine, lovely dog. I'll enjoy him for what he is, and get him a GSD girlfriend who is suitable as a PPD." These sorts of responses respect the dog for what he is instead of trying to make him what he isn't.

Um, did you actually read the thread? I was never looking for a PPD, just a dog that didn't flat out trust and love every human being on the planet. He did growl at 2 people in the past...I'm wondering if you'd be the third . OK, no more swiping, I promise.

I bought my GSD from a showline breeder who is known in this area for breeding sound, good-tempered dogs. If I wanted a Cujo, I would have gone elsewhere.

I hit the jackpot with my dog, he is as perfect a dog as you can get (except, of course, if you're wanting a PPD). He is loved by EVERYONE who meets him. I've never seen anything like it; even people who flat out don't like dogs love him.

BUT, this discussion board is not for people to write in telling every other members, "Oh I love my dog so much", "He's so cute", "He's just learned a new trick", etc. It is meant for people to learn what they can, fix what they need, change and/or understand everything and anything pertaining to dogs.

I volunteer every weekend at my local, no-kill shelter. Gunnar comes with me every weekend. His job is to help socialize the puppies. They use Gunnar to introduce the puppies "to big dogs for the first time", to learn good doggie manners, etc. And as much as I want to help all the dogs in the shelter, I do not allow Gunnar near any dog that is even remotely questionable in the dog aggression category. I've worked too hard to keep him safe.

I have done everything humanely possible to keep him safe:

I have special neon orange equipment and blinking lights for nighttime walks; I walk my dog with enough equipment to be mistaken for a SWAT team member, I will not let anyone give him a command, even in the shelter, because I don't want him listening to strangers (aka a dognapper); I won't let anyone feed him treats EVER (fear of dognapper again); I even go to this crazy extent --- when I leave him home alone I put a special day-glo orange flat collar on him so he can't get it caught on anything, I leave doors locked but not doublelocked so, God forbid, there is a fire and he's alone, he can get out (he knows how to open our doors); I alarm my house so that he can walk around the house freely but if a door, accidentally or otherwise, gets opened, I'll know about it and the alarm company will call the police; I have an electric fence, yet I don't even let him outside alone for more than 2 or 3 minutes at a time without checking on him and I live in a place where crime is unheard of. I'm crazy, I know.

I could go on about what other safety measures I take but this would turn into a novel.

My nearly perfect GSD is just that. Nearly perfect. What does he lack? Complete safety from the horrid people of the world; the ones who would do him harm.

So how do I keep him out of harm's way? One of my biggest concerns, I'm obsessed by it, is that someone will steal him. Party because everywhere I go with him, people stop me and comment on my dog. Some will literally pull their car over and yell out the window what a beautiful dog I have. People stop their conversations and stare at him and tell each other what a gorgeous dog. Last night in the pet store there were 7 teenagers about 18 yrs old who stopped what they were talking about and told me how beautiful he was. If you have teenagers, you would know this is pretty amazing that they'd be focused on anything but themselves ! In the same store another group was in the middle of training their Llapso Apso and stopped the training to ask me about Gunnar. People stop what they are doing all the time and ask me all kinds of questions - every single time. I cannot go on a single outing, to a store, on a hike, anywhere, without someone complimenting my dog.

Now you might think, "Oh she should be happy." Yes, Susan, I'm happy he's so pretty BUT, it terrifies me because all types of people stare at him and compliment him; including people who look very questionable.

So the only thing left for me to do to keep from someone possibly hurting him or stealing him was to turn to the smart folks on this board to see how I can make him less "Oh My God! A Stranger! C'mon In, Let's Have a Party At My House!" dog. My dog is the Dalai Lama of the dog world and it scares the crap out of me because he is so noticed by everyone and has a personality that would probably allow you to take him by the leash right off his property. Yes, I know, I'm crazy for worrying about it to the point of near obsession but I do.

So, Susan, have I clarified my love and acceptance for my dog enough to suit you? If you'd like more examples, please, by all means, feel free to PM me. Because I'm quite sure the people on this board have heard enough about Gunnar for one day .

Speaking of enough, hold on, one more thing...Gunnar is featured in the magazine, House Beautiful, this month! Page 132! He had his photo shoot last July (it was pretty funny) and now, here he is! . Just PM me if you want his autograph !

 Quote: Howard Knauf

 Quote: Susan Shott

on command and without hesitation, savagely take down a child.

An unfair assessment as well, Carol

I read that comment last night when the OP first posted this thread up yesterday and was very taken aback by that comment. I as well deal with a disability much like the OP describes. My Malinois helps me with limited Assistance bracing, pick up things I drop etc. I train my Malinois in French Ring (one of the most intense protection dog sports out there) to boot. Yet I have 3 younger kids that the dog lives with. I read that comment by the OP and was sickened by the visual and more by the broad brush insinuation.

So I log in this AM and see 4 pages of mostly argumentive banter. I'm not sure what the OP wants but it looks like she got it. Congratulations!!!

<hand raised and shouting OH! OH! OH!> I want his autograph for sure. How awesome is that Judy.....I will have to buy the magazine just for that.

And, it was TWO cups of coffee.....

Great post, and the whole "mistaken for a SWAT team member" was great.

(I tried to PM you this but your are over your limit)

I not a GSD owner, and never will be. Frankly, they scare me! Doing dog training for over 10 yrs when I was called to a home with a rottie I was thrilled, dobie no problem, pit bull I loved them! But when I got a call about a GSD I cringed internally.
Maybe it's just my area but most, I'd predict 95% of the GSD's here, are not stable dogs to me. They are totally unpredictable and are either human aggressive, dog/animal aggressive, or a combination of both. The one bite I took during the entire time of doing in home training was from a GSD and luckily was not a bad bite. This dog was going after small children and was a menace to the neighborhood it lived in. While I did manage some semblence of control of the prey drive the owner was advised to muzzle the dog in public for the safety of the children around and for his own protection from the liability that could be caused by the dog biting a child. This dog had bit his own children, badly which is why the call came to me. It was a bad situation compounded by an owner who purchased a GSD as a first dog and did no research on what the breed requires or needs to keep happy. This dog had no job to perform and was left find trouble on his own, which he did with joy.
I admire a good working GSD and totally enjoy watching them work, they are amazing dogs, I just can't do the temperaments I see in most of them here. When I run across a calm, mild mannered, friendly GSD I'm thrilled. It just doesn't happen often. I have great respect for those that own them and train them and know their potential.
I realize that they are bred for their aloofness and such, but I do sometimes feel that in the scheme of going for 'looks & type' the temperment rather than being 'aloof' has became a bit unstable in many lines.
I like this site because it helps me understand the varying degrees of temperament in this breed and I'm always for learning more about any breed of dog and ways to work with that breed effectively.
I just know it's a breed I have no desire to own. I'll stick with my little springers! LOL

 Quote: melissa burkhard

I not a GSD owner, and never will be. Frankly, they scare me!

It is not so much the dogs that scare me since any breed has the potential, but rather the people who have dogs that are obviously the ruler of the roost, which allows for things to happen like you described.

I have been around people with dogs that bolt away from them, bolt out of the vehicle because they refuse to use a crate, and all the owners do is stand there and say "Fluffy come.....Fluffy come.....Ffflllluufffyyyyy sttoooppp tthhaaatttt, Ohhhh Fluffy"

UGH, been there and watched as the dog body slammed other dogs, jumped in other peoples cars, terrorized crated dogs by barking at them, jumped all over my dog which was the dog that was supposed to be out getting ready to do some training and then the owner says, "Oh she is okay, she just wants to play."
And then the owner gets mad because someone takes a swing or kick at the dog to keep it away.

Frickin irritating. Next time, I am breaking out the Glock.