Josh Lewis wrote: I just spent 3 days out in LA teaching at the LA Police Canine Associations annual seminar.
LC: Josh if I didn’t love you like a brother I’d have to kill you! This is the second time that I’ve had to make this correction. Once more and I’m putting an Ecollar on you!
LC: Get the name right dammit! The organization for which you just taught your class, which I founded and then was the President of for 5 years (now the Vice–President) is the Los Angeles **COUNTY** Police Canine Association, LACPCA. We’re a non profit organization dedicated to doing K9 training for police dog handlers in the LA county area. Our annual seminar draws people from all over the country though. Take a look at LACPCA.com.
Alan wrote: how is it different?? Seems it is not the tool, they can all be misused. That leaves the operator. So what is the controversy??? Easier to ruin the dog you say??? That may answer the question about ease of use but I don’t think so. What about Negative reinforcement??? Timimg???
LC: There are a couple of reasons that an Ecollar is different from other dog training tools. For more, refer to my list of myths elsewhere on this forum.
http://www.leerburg.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=23&t=000005
LC: Most adults in modern countries have experience with electricity on some level. As a child you may have put a utensil into an electrical socket and gotten knocked across the room. You may have let your finger slide down onto the base of a light bulb that you were changing. In more urban areas you may have bumped into an electrical fence (also called a “charged fence.&rdquo
If you haven’t had those experiences (I’m sure that I’m the only one with all of those lessons learned, LOL) I’m sure that you’ve read some newspaper account of an electrician who’s died when his heart stopped from an electrical shock. And so you’re quite familiar with electricity and it’s dangers. But like fire, it can also be your friend. Fire can destroy your home but it can also cook your food.
LC: These experiences have given you the idea that electricity is EXTREMELY painful. Nothing in your life has prepared you for the electrical stimulation that comes from a modern Ecollar, with one possible exception. If you’ve had Physical Therapy to help recover from an injury you may had been put on a TENS unit to stimulate the muscles and increase blood flow to them. Those result in minor discomfort and the muscles twitching like crazy.
LC: In all of my classes I demonstrate the stimulation to the participants. Each of them places the Ecollar on their hand while I dial up the stimulation level until they can just feel it. Many of them jump when it first occurs. But they’re embarrassed because it wasn’t as bad as they thought it was going to be. The most common comment is, “Is that all it is?” That level, where it’s first perceived by the dog, is where most of the work is done.
LC: Modern Ecollars have settings so low they can best be described as a tingle or a buzz, not a shock. This allows a trainer to use low levels that are only uncomfortable (rather than painful) to the dog. This allows the trainer to help the dog become reliable, even under distracting conditions, with minimal discomfort.
LC: The controversy is in part the way that Ecollars came into common use and why they were first invented. The Ecollar is one of those things that was invented in several parts of the world at once. I don’t know who was first. If anyone does, I’d like to hear about it. In the late 60’s in the US, TriTronics developed the tool for use by retriever folks whose dogs occasionally chased other animals such as deer, skunks, raccoons, cats and others. They called all of these “undesirable animals” “trash.” TT still makes a collar called the trashbreaker that has a 2-mile range.
LC: These dogs had very high drives to bird and drives just as high to chase trash. The original collars had one button, and a very high setting. When the dogs started chasing trash the handler would press the button and, just like using dynamite, BLAST the dogs off the chase. This worked for most dogs but often created problems.
LC: One problem that often occurred is that the dog returned to the handler but wouldn’t leave his side again. “It HURTS out there so why should I go out there?” Some dogs could be trained to hunt again, but some would never leave again. Those dogs were simply gotten rid of, often put to sleep.
LC: Another problem that often occurred was that a really driven, tough dog would “grit his teeth” and power through the pain. These dogs either ran out of the range of the Ecollars and the pain stopped or their handlers simply gave up. Either way the dogs learned that they could power through the pain and that when they did, it stopped. These dogs learned a very valuable lesson. If they could tolerate the pain for a few moments it would go away. These dogs also weren’t retained. These same problems are often seen today when trying to get biting dogs to leave the bite when the Ecollar is used this way. Other problems that arise are the hectic biting or the anticipation of the “out” command, that has been mentioned earlier in this thread.
LC: Keep in mind that these were VERY high drive dogs. As long as the Ecollars were kept in this venue their use was appropriate, although a bit harsh.
LC: But those people who competed in big dollar obedience discovered the Ecollars and thought that they were an excellent way to get to off–leash obedience. But the problem was that these dogs were not nearly as “high–drive” as the bird dogs and so the one, very high level of stimulation was too high for them. But these people didn’t care. There were big bucks at stake. Many people using them today in this fashion also don’t care. Some of them create the problems mentioned, and more, and then spend weeks fixing those problems. Usually by then, the original problem is back. I call this, “Building a mountain and then climbing over it.”
LC: Re Alan’s comment about “negative reinforcement” I’m not sure where he’s headed. But the Ecollar allows for negative reinforcement training. When the button is released (on a constant stimulation setting) the stimulation shuts off and the dog is negatively reinforced for completing the behavior.
LC: Re Alan’s comment about “timing;” I’ll respond by saying that timing is important with any dog-training tool. But perfect timing ISN’T necessary with any tool. NO ONE has “perfect timing” for more than a few minutes, not the best trainers on the planet. With everyone, concentration fades, and “perfect timing” becomes “very good timing.” After a few more hours, the best, slip into just “good timing.” If you have perfect timing, training progresses VERY quickly. If you have good timing, training takes a little longer. If you have so–so timing training takes longer still. If you have HORRIBLE timing, either no training occurs or the wrong training takes effect.
LC: Anyone who can train a dog with a leash and collar can learn to use an Ecollar correctly, effectively and humanely. Even many who aren’t coordinated enough to give a correction can learn to use an Ecollar effectively. If you have HORRIBLE timing, sell your dog and get a goldfish. Timing isn’t important with them.
Lou Castle has been kicked off this board. He is an OLD SCHOOL DOG TRAINER with little to offer.
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