I have to leave this alone. I know you are intelligent enough to debate this without spinning it, and you just choose not to.

Happy trolling.

OK, trolling, right.

This reminds me. I have a friend who had a mal break his neck and die in the ring. Dog DIED in the ring in his owners arms.
The guy now has another dog, and does agility with this dog.

I also had a local breeder loose a small dog to an tire falling on TOP of him. He was paralyzed. PTS same day.

My dog wrecked her wrist doing agility.
I still have incident on camera somewhere. I still worked her in it after she recovered. And MANY other activities, sports dogs have been injured or died in.

I have another friend with a dog who will NEVER run again. (like as in run in a field, or chase a stick) And is slowly healing after falling off the dog walk.
She has another dog that went to nationals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6KLajepanE
The first video may have broken a rib?

This happened to my friends dog. Died when landing on head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGsLzXN1dmY

And THIS dog who hurts himself simply running...
shows that life is full of injuries. One can walk down the street and trip and die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90gyVUm1AMU

Anyways. We all have different opinions of what we should and should not do with a dog, and what is risky.
Roughly 30,000 people die in car crashes, yearly.
Maybe we should start base jumping to work?

Im curious of what people think about this?

I am not going to diminish anybody's concerns. i do think that context and perspective plays a part.

the number of dog's with neck and spine injuries due to getting jammed in long bites is not insignificant.

is it good enough that a dog does an adequate long bite, not for many, the dog has to hit harder and faster to saitisy many good trainers.

my dog loves the bite work, will i allow it to do long bites over and over, faster and faster for no reason outside of it looks neat. never happen, it proves nothing and exposes your dog to a lot of risk...for nothing.

will i ever fry my dog with electricity cos it's nose is pointing a millimetre in the wrong direction in a heel position, fry it cos it's butt is not perfectly straight, do many people do that - yes, do i think it sux - yes.

I didn't realize I repeated what was already brought up. Sorry.

Duane...I'm with you.... I'm out. This is typical Peter....posting to seek attention & just hear himself talk nonsense.


Troll away Peter. Brianah have at it...You & Peter both like to provoke confrontation.

Serious purposeful discussion is always welcome...poking the bear in the eye & attention seeking..not so much.

nice, judge much.

Only when it is warranted.

 Quote: Peter Cavallaro

let me ask you this; Bob here as a mod presumably represents the values of the board.

how many dogs has he sent down how many holes in the ground to face how many critters that would prefer to be left alone but are forced to fight for their life at what risk to the dog?

BOOM

There is no point replying to the majority of the things you say, however i need to say something about this. First, your completely out of line going at Bob and what he does with his dogs. The amount of injuries to dogs while doing earth trials or whatever you are referring to is minimal. Not to mention thats what the dogs were bred to do. Im just irritated and am not going to waste my time to continue typing.

 Quote: Peter Cavallaro

let me ask you this; Bob here as a mod presumably represents the values of the board.

how many dogs has he sent down how many holes in the ground to face how many critters that would prefer to be left alone but are forced to fight for their life at what risk to the dog?

BOOM

I have absolutely no problem answering that question.

The group I hunted with used baying dogs in the ground namely JRTs.

I started with Borders and quickly learned they were to willing to take punishment.

I retired my two Borders and got my JRT Pete. I had hunted with both of Pete's parents and all four grandparents. ALL were good baying dogs.

What a "baying dog" means to a terrier man is a dog that will go to ground, find the quarry and bay till they are dug to. NO contact with the critter.

Wild animals will avoid possible injury at all costs. A coon, ground hog, whatever in the ground wont fight unless presses and actually attacked.

I've more often then not when digging out a raccoon we find the critter curled up with it's back to the dog.

A female with kits will fight. NO HUNTING in breeding and cub rearing season.

From there the quarry is "usually" dispatched by the hunters. The baying dogs are rarely hurt simply because of their holding back from the quarry and baying to hold it in place.

I dug to my Borders for less then half a season simply because they were killers in the ground with no fear about taking punishment.

Not only is that cruel and unethical, it also means you would spend the day hunting and spend a week or two with the dog recouping.

I dug to Pete for 6-7 yrs and he took a nip in the shoulder ONE time.

Now, why "usually" dispatch the quarry?

Simple. We hunted on farms. One ground hog can easily destroy a quarter acre of soybean as it breaks ground in spring.

Dens in the middle of a field can and do damage farm equipment when these summer dens collapse under the weight of the equipment.

I also hunted on horse farms in Kentucky.

Two things go on at a horse farms involving critters. Horses break legs in ground hog holes and I've personally seen a race horse freak out and run into a fence when a ground hog popped up in front of it with a loud whistle. Race horses can be very high spirited, nervous, touchy animals.

Raccoons crap all over the top layers of hay in the hay barns. This can carry diseases and make horses sick when they eat the hay.

Simply put, ground hogs and raccoons are NOT welcome on horse farms, especially farms that raise million dollar + race horses.

Some ares we hunted the owners didn't want the critters around but didn't want them destroyed. Not a problem. They were simply snared when dug to and released in another area IF the owner required us to do so.

Do dogs get hurt in the ground?

Some get killed but that's the reason everyone in the club I belonged to went with lines that were proven baying dogs. It wasn't about who had the baddest dog.

It was about catching and removing pests from areas where they were doing damage. Plain and simple.